TinBane
2/10/07 2:45:02 PM
Mod
Hero
Immortal
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I'm interested in getting into DoTA.
Where is the best place to look for good stratergies?
Are there any newb DoTA resources? My impression so far is that it isn't exactly a newb friendly gaming community. -----
absit iniuria verbis
Eli Roth & Quentin Tarantino - "[Nick Frost is] the funniest man on earth."
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Khirareq
2/10/07 2:57:16 PM
Hero
Immortal
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Quote by TinBane
Where is the best place to look for good stratergies?
Are there any newb DoTA resources?
Kung Fu Hung-Su - Tips and advice without the arrogance
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Punk is dead - Emo kids are next!!
That was Zen - This is Tao
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hectorbustnuts
2/10/07 2:57:44 PM
Immortal
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http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=3&c=12&t=13055&h=Dota&u=
Yep, Kung Fu Hung-Su's the man to be speaking to.
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Kung Fu Hung-Su
2/10/07 7:38:01 PM
Guru
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Aww, I'm loved =) Hmm, I'll assume you're a complete newbie, so I'll give a few tips to start.
The very best way to learn DotA is in the personal company of other experienced DotA players. If you can get to a LAN cafe and somehow situate yourself between two other experienced players, you can become formidable and a useful asset to a team in a day, if you've the patience, dedication and ability to learn. And also ask the right questions. This is the way I learnt initially.
The next best way, imo...is personal instruction online from someone willing to tutor you. I can be such a person if you require. hector has kindly linked my old thread, where you can see a few other newbie DotA atomicans have posted.
Next best, would be to look at this DotA tutorial, The Idiot's Guide to DotA , and teach yourself to play with some AI opponents or try looking for some Noob Only games online. If you can find some fellow noobie friends to play with you, so much the better. I must advise, your very first game of DotA should never be online, even in a Noob only game.
http://www.wcreplays.com/articles.php?get=392
I personally think I can make a much better tutorial than this, and I believe a significant amount of the information in it to be incorrect and obsolete, but I haven't had the time to right my own. =/
In fact, I'll write a mini guide of my own in a moment. Before I do, I must ask, have you played Warcraft 3 and any of its custom trigger maps before?
Edited by Kung Fu Hung-Su: 2/10/2007 7:56:25 PM -----
Just call me Hung, or invent a nickname and tell me.
Still offering introductory DotA tutorials. PM me if interested.
What do you like? Please post here.
http://atomicans.wetpaint.com/
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TinBane
4/10/07 8:51:14 AM
Mod
Hero
Immortal
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Thanks Hung-Su. I've played trigger maps before, things like line warriors, and the one where you dodge the orcs (ninja square or maze or something?). Also that first 'RPG' that came with WCIII.
I'm playing with the AI a bit, but I don't think you can play against scourge in a 1 player game. Or maybe I'm just incompetent :)
I'll have a look at that guide, and try and get some experience before I hit the net cafe for some noob games.
I'd love some instruction, but unfortunately Its hard to predict when I can find time to play. -----
absit iniuria verbis
Eli Roth & Quentin Tarantino - "[Nick Frost is] the funniest man on earth."
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Kung Fu Hung-Su
4/10/07 10:22:10 AM
Guru
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Err, you play against Scourge by default. You play against Sentinel by changing teams as you would for a LAN or online game. =P
For your first few games, I believe it is essential for you to pick a ranged hero, longer ranged, the better. For this reason, everyone who learns from me chooses Dwarven Sniper first. (Sentinel hero)
The first thing you need to learn is keep your distance. Sniper has a skill that increases his range, constantly take advantage of it. You should be firing at the outer extremes of your range most of the time. You should NEVER be hit by anything. If ANY enemy runs towards you, no matter how small, run away. If an enemy hero runs towards you, RUNRUNRUN. If your HP is not maximum at any point in the first 7 minutes of the game, you've done it wrong. Try harder next game.
The next thing you'll want help with is item selection. The most basic idea with item selection is "buy what you need." That's it. As you play, you will SURELY think to yourself "Man I wish I could run faster" or "My attacks do so little damage <.<" This is when you buy appropriate items. I'll list some here.
I run too slow!
Boots of Speed
Power Treads
Boots of Travel
Yasha
Sange and Yasha
I don't have enough health!
Vanguard
Bracer...better get two or three of them to start =P
Enemy spells REALLY hurt
Planewalker's cloak
Hood of Defiance
Linken's Sphere
My attacks don't do enough damage!
Crystalys
Demon Edge
Buriza
Sacred Relic -> Radiance
Stygian Desolator
I'm having trouble running down enemy heroes!
(I run too slow)
Kelen's Dagger of Escape
Mask of Madness
Sange
Sange and Yasha
Eye of Skadi
Diffusal Blade
I don't shoot fast enough!
Yasha
Sange and Yasha
Quarterstaff
Eaglehorn
Butterfly
I can't get out of trouble!
(I run too slow)
Lothar's Edge
Kelen's Dagger of Escape
Running into town and back takes too long!
(I run too slow)
Scroll of town portal
Boots of Travel
Edited by Kung Fu Hung-Su: 4/10/2007 10:25:38 AM -----
Just call me Hung, or invent a nickname and tell me.
Still offering introductory DotA tutorials. PM me if interested.
What do you like? Please post here.
http://atomicans.wetpaint.com/
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TinBane
4/10/07 3:47:35 PM
Mod
Hero
Immortal
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Cool, played a few games as the dwarven sniper. Very fun with the sniping skills and the extreme range :)
I got the power treads, but I couldn't work out for the life of me how to buy demon edge (noob that I am).
It seems like you need to work out a build with next to zero wastage of time/money to be competetive. I take it DoTA isn't a very forgiving game. -----
absit iniuria verbis
Eli Roth & Quentin Tarantino - "[Nick Frost is] the funniest man on earth."
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Kung Fu Hung-Su
4/10/07 5:45:51 PM
Guru
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Indeed, the second worst mistake newbies make is wasting too much time figuring out what to buy. (the worst mistake is dying to non hero enemies) Competitive players will have made their purchase decisions out in the field,know precisely where all the items they need are purchased from, and are adept enough at controlling their hero such that they don't spend a second longer in base than they need to. They will also have a fairly rough plan of how to build their hero to completion at the very beginning of the game.
Wasting money is rather difficult in DotA. The only wastage you need to worry about for now is buying things that cancel out or do not stack with other things. For example, buying two boots does not stack. Buying something that gives evasion when you have evasion already does not stack. This you will have to learn with experience and asking questions.
So, looking at Dwarven Sniper. Examine his skills. Simple logic should allow you to deduce what would benefit him most. For example, if we look at his ultimate skill, Assassinate, the cooldown time on it is only 10 seconds at final level, and does 655 damage to someone who is 2500 units away from you and there is nothing they can do to avoid it once you've locked on. Imagine that you are facing that yourself. That's utterly scary bullshit. But what do you need to have to do this?
Mana. 375 mana every 10 seconds is a high price. So you buy mana items if you want to be an assassinate spamming sniper. What increases mana? Raw Intelligence, and mana regen items like the Void Stone and Arcane Ring.
Or, if we look at another of his skills, Headshot. Hmm, 40% chance on every shot to do an extra 50 damage and stun the enemy. More utter bullshit. So how do you take advantage of this? Increase your attack speed. More shots means more headshots. How do you increase attack speed? By increasing Agility, or buying items that flat out increase attack speed, like the Power Treads.
You will need basic knowledge of the value of recon and communication as well. And while it may not seem like it, you need to be fast and accurate with your mouse and hotkeys. No where near as fast as gosu starcraft and wc3 players you see on the internets, but you must be fast. I can teach you some of the things you need to tell and ask your teammates, but I think I would have to do that in a game.
The Demon Edge, along with several other expensive and important items, is bought at one of the two Secret shops. One is on each side of the river. The one on the sentinel side is on the left side of the map. It shouldn't be hard to find with some exploring.
One more thing. The Scatter shot is like a shotgun. It does more damage if fired at close range. Hitting a hero like this is difficult obviously but ir's important to note if you're trying to clear out a wave of creeps.
Edited by Kung Fu Hung-Su: 4/10/2007 05:52:21 PM -----
Just call me Hung, or invent a nickname and tell me.
Still offering introductory DotA tutorials. PM me if interested.
What do you like? Please post here.
http://atomicans.wetpaint.com/
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TinBane
5/10/07 10:07:03 AM
Mod
Hero
Immortal
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Thanks mate! That's awesome!!!!
I was thinking about taking mana boosting items to spam assasinate. I got the power treads (attack bonus + speed, rather than just raw speed). I was also taking items that give crits, and damage bonus too.
That explains why I couldn't find demon edge!
I'll give it some time this weekend, and try and get half-decent. -----
absit iniuria verbis
Eli Roth & Quentin Tarantino - "[Nick Frost is] the funniest man on earth."
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Kung Fu Hung-Su
5/10/07 11:05:19 AM
Guru
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I'm curious, just how are you faring against the AI right now? How often do you die? How often do you win? And what's the exact name of the map you are playing may I ask? -----
Just call me Hung, or invent a nickname and tell me.
Still offering introductory DotA tutorials. PM me if interested.
What do you like? Please post here.
http://atomicans.wetpaint.com/
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TinBane
5/10/07 5:05:50 PM
Mod
Hero
Immortal
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DotA_Allstars_v6.38b_AI_v1.93b.w3x is the map I'm playing.
Thats the last AI map I could find on the DOTA site.
I'm finding it hard to kill off computer players, often the AIs on my team get the damned kills right after wallop the enemy hero.
I'm probably averaging five deaths a game, against easy AIs, with about ten kills, but I've won every one.
Pretty newb hey ;)
The AI still manages to catch me sometimes. Teleporting in, and slow/stunning me then getting me with beams and lightning and such. They seem to gank with about three at a time all with teleport items/skills.
Is that normal for easy AI?
I usually play 3xEasy and 1xNormal vs me and 3xEasy. -----
absit iniuria verbis
Eli Roth & Quentin Tarantino - "[Nick Frost is] the funniest man on earth."
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p0is(+)n
5/10/07 5:23:06 PM
Guru
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I started learning a few years ago with my wow guild; when we wernt raiding, we were 5v5 in dota.. heh.
You just need to play against other people, on random mode. So you will always(usually...) get a different hero and everyone else will have different heros too. That way you can learn all the different abilities that your teammates are using aswell as your enemies. Playing against the AI doesnt really help IMO you are better off getting on battlenet and playing with real people. -----
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morgoth
5/10/07 5:34:15 PM
Hero
Immortal
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The newer 6.43 AI by KGB is a little more realistic than the 6.38 by cloud_str, and newer maps are cool. -----
E6600@4GHz|HD2900XT@900MHz core All Custom Watercooled|965p DQ6|2Gb Ballistix Tracer PC8000|13,400 3dmark06
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Kung Fu Hung-Su
6/10/07 7:53:51 PM
Guru
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That AI is fine for you. the 6.43b AI+ Map by RGB is far too difficult for you for now. Playing against AI is fine if you have guidance and feedback from other people. You may be ready to take on some online noobies now, though not necessariy win. I can't judgethis until I see you play.
The AI behaves in the same way at all difficulties. The difference is that higher levels will award the AI with bonus gold an experience. It is possible to outlevel the AI in normal, largely impossible at hard. Make sure you help out when the AI notifies you that it is engaging someone.
You've been playing a bit now, and have some understanding of how the AI works. In particular, it's behaviour when it's health is depleting. I believe Cloud_Str's AI will always retreat when it's health starts getting into the red. You should be getting all the kills, I don't see how your allied buddies should be stealing them unless they're ultimates do more damage than yours. Are you saving your assassinate for when you would have a sure kill? Remember you can click on an enemy hero to view their PRECISE HP. Also note that heroes have damage resistance. I can't recall if Assassinate is Physical or Magical damage so for now assume that heroes have 25% resistance. This means that with a 355 damage Assassinate, you are just about guaranteed a kill against a hero with less than 260 HP or so (remember that because you take a moment to lock on, heroes can heal slightly in that time)
5 deaths is too many. Should be 0, considering you are sniper AND are against the largely stupid AI. I suggest you either buy more HP/damage reduction items or play more cautiously.
If you can, send me a replay of you playing against them so I can critique. Or, give me a buzz on MSN so I can watch you personally.
EDIT: Scatter shot != Assassinate xD
Edited by Kung Fu Hung-Su: 6/10/2007 9:46:41 PM -----
Just call me Hung, or invent a nickname and tell me.
Still offering introductory DotA tutorials. PM me if interested.
What do you like? Please post here.
http://atomicans.wetpaint.com/
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morgoth
6/10/07 9:08:08 PM
Hero
Immortal
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Correct, in the newer AI they gang gank and all. -----
E6600@4GHz|HD2900XT@900MHz core All Custom Watercooled|965p DQ6|2Gb Ballistix Tracer PC8000|13,400 3dmark06
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TinBane
7/10/07 12:29:51 PM
Mod
Hero
Immortal
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Played two games against newbs.
They were random games.
I got the Beastmaster? in the first one. The guy who throws axes. I think one of the opponents was pretty pro. He was an undead guy (on the good team?) and had a million clones and could kill any of our players before you could do ANYTHING if he got into melee.
I think he had the knife of escape.
Anyway, we lost (but I wasn't the worst on the team). The other team also had a REALLY good venomancer... ouch.
The next game was random as well, and I ended up with the bounty hunter. I kept sneaking up on the fire mage and stabbing her a lot. We had a nerubian weaver? spider guy, who could go invis too, and we'd sneak up and gank people :)
The bounty hunter's special was awesome too. A few of the opponents dropped and there was this one guy who was awesome. He was a kind of lizard sorcerer. So I'd track him whenever I could so that we could see where he was, because he got a few of us a fer times.
I died about five times and got seven kills :)
I'll do some more AI playing, and send you a replay :) -----
absit iniuria verbis
Eli Roth & Quentin Tarantino - "[Nick Frost is] the funniest man on earth."
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Kung Fu Hung-Su
8/10/07 4:03:32 PM
Guru
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Tinbane, it appears you have an unusual dota AI version that is unofficial. Could you send me the link to the place you downloaded this AI map from please?
Odd, you have the official map...you say you played online so you must have the latest version of WC3...I'm stumped! I believe you and I need to speak online xD. The only way I can watch you play will be live over hamachi I believe...but I have no idea how well hamachi works on Macs...lame.
Edited by Kung Fu Hung-Su: 8/10/2007 04:25:20 PM -----
Just call me Hung, or invent a nickname and tell me.
Still offering introductory DotA tutorials. PM me if interested.
What do you like? Please post here.
http://atomicans.wetpaint.com/
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azn_warez
9/10/07 12:19:07 AM
Champion
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Lol. It's pretty cool how Kung Fu makes DoTA sound so serious. Initially i think a good way to figure out the mechanics of DoTA is to go to dota-allstars website and register in the forum there. Select 1 hero you'll like to master first off. Learn from the hero guides in the forum what to buy and what to research skills wise. Then go online with your newly mastered character into -APEM games. That way you can experience DoTA without respawning every 3 mins and learn from the guy with the best creep score (or whoever gets godlike). A good gauge of a pro. especially the amount of creep denials. -----
"Mommy, can I lick the bowl?"
"No, you can flush it like everyone else."
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black0ut
9/10/07 2:13:59 AM
Primarch
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Ah, I love DOTA -----
Q6600 | GA-P35-DS3P | Powercolor HD 2900XT 512mb |
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Gharphield
9/10/07 8:00:36 AM
Mod
Hero
Immortal
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A while ago I wanted to setup a fun game of Atomic vs OCAU ... mainly because that friendly rival stuff between us has gone over the years.
Naturally I wanted Kungfu as our leader ;) hell he taught me. -----
Wakka wakka wakka wakka *FRUIT*
Lex Talionis
I'm not being aggressive, I'm just being dominant.
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