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(i dont believe myself) PC vs Console
colganaitor 
29/7/08 11:21:35 PM
Master

Quote by Master_Scythe

Cost:
Often a console is cheaper, but with the PS3, thats not the case ATM. even the Xbox360 can be PC rivaled at its price range.




I'd like to dispute this. After all, computers are actually far cheaper than consoles, because, when you think about it, everyone already has a computer of some kind, as it's basically a necessity of life in modern society. And even if you buy a box for as low as $300, you can still play games like Crysis with the graphics set to low, and at a quality likely similar to or better than most consoles.

And really, most people spend at least $1500 on a new PC, which is used for a variety of purposes, and can even do everything a console/TV setup can, if you don't mind the posture.

Consoles can be a complete pain in the arse - If they stuff up, there's little or no solution for the problem. With PCs, you can fiddle with a variety of things to get them working again. If you tried to fiddle about with hardware and drivers on a console, you'd likely void the warranty, so that you'd have to buy a new one.

The hardware setup like consoles is unappealing, much similar to Macs in why I don't like it. If one part of it breaks, most likely it'll have to be replaced nearly in its entirety, as console hardware is not intended to be swapped out (the same issue arises for some Macs). But wait, there's more - you can't even swap the bloody thing out yourself without contacting a company-licensed professional.

Hence, consoles are neither cheaper (when considering buying one as well as a PC, which is always the case), or easier to use, unless you class ease of use as the 'press the button faster to win' dynamic of so many drivel-filled console games.

-----
John Connor: We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
The Terminator: It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.
John Connor: Yeah. Major drag, huh?

SceptreCore 
30/7/08 1:24:04 AM
Guru

I do not believe this thread was made. The argument is fruitless, what people prefer to game on depending on PC or Console... doesn't make one better than the other.

Master_Scythe if you are reading this, it is possible that Index has hacked your account!

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colganaitor 
30/7/08 1:28:33 AM
Master

well, good point, as it is always ultimately up to personal choice. However, I have my personal choice and reasoning for it above for any possible adherent/troll . .

-----
John Connor: We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
The Terminator: It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.
John Connor: Yeah. Major drag, huh?

merlin13 
30/7/08 10:28:57 AM
Titan

You do have far more security in a Console, where if you give it to the Kids to play games on there's infinitely less chance some grubby little knob from down the street will either start surfing for porn or cock up all your applications...

-----
Anything not nailed down is mine, and anything I can prise up is not nailed down...
Carpe Jugulum.
Carpe Scrotum.

Jeruselem 
30/7/08 10:31:42 AM
Champion

Quote by merlin13
You do have far more security in a Console, where if you give it to the Kids to play games on there's infinitely less chance some grubby little knob from down the street will either start surfing for porn or cock up all your applications...



True, but then the Console is so locked down ... you have to hack into your own console to add features too.

-----
PC 1: XP Home SP2, Opty 165@1.8Ghz, GEIL 1GB PC3200, 320GB SATA Cuda ES,XFX 9600GSO 580/700x2/1450, Seasonic S12+ 550W
PC 2: XP Home SP2, XP 3000+@2.24 Ghz, 1GB PC3200, 80GB IDE,ASUS nVidia 6800 512MB, Codegen 450W

17747114553 
1/8/08 6:32:53 PM
Primarch
Quote by The Fuzz damn you!
For me, consoles won't even start approaching PC replacement status until we start getting console games that *require* 1080p (or at the very least 720p, which is a tad more realistic). HD gaming right now is pretty much a gimmick (which, I'll admit right now, I say without having any idea whether there are genuine HD console games out there).



That argument is the dumbest thing anyone can say when debating for PC "games".

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elmo198 
2/8/08 3:19:06 PM
Champion

Console is a console thats that..
console can not be compare to a personal computer.
They are not the samething, though you might think they serve the same purpose. They are not even in the same league.

PC in general is a multi task whore, while a console is not. Console might be able to do other stuff, you can't server movies, run a web/db + gateway server all at the same time while playing your favouite game and watch movie + TV all in the same time frame. Console is limited and should only be used for what it is designed for, "A lounge Room entertainment unit".

PC is in every way suprior. Cost of a PC can not be compare to a console, as the PC can do much more at the sametime than a console could. I like owning a full range socket set(PC) as to owning a ¾ socket ranch (console). Or you can say is like owning your entire lounge room entertainment unit all bundle up into one which is the humble personal computer.. the cost of all stuff in your lounge is obviously more than a console..

That being said, console is still a great thing to have, is like owning an arcade machine, is fast and with little fuss can get you your eye candy fix.

-----
http://users.tpg.com.au/elmie/linux/
http://users.tpg.com.au/elmie/windows/

Apocrypha 
3/8/08 12:07:22 AM
Master

The way I see it is this:

Everyone owns a computer that they use to check their email, Google their own name etc. etc. To turn that computer -- providing it was made in the last 2 years, say -- into a machine capable of gaming would take at most $300. All you need is a decent graphics card.

Imagine you own a decent home PC now, a Conroe dual core, decent mobo with a PCIe 16x slot, 2gb+ of RAM etc. You then go an buy a 4850, for argument's sake, which costs under $200, and slap it into your machine, and away you go. You can now play any title you like at 720p or better (providing your monitor supports it, and most do), which is as good or better than the X360/PS3.

Also, don't forget to add in the cost of a TV to your console purchase. A 1080p TV is $2000+ for 32". You might say, then, that you will always watch TV and you want a big screen -- this is exactly the logic I'm employing above to add on the gaming capability to your decent PC by adding in a decent GPU.

Gaming is something that you ADD ON to an existing (and more expensive) piece of tech you already have. If you own an LCD or plasma TV, you can add on the capability for gaming by adding a console for $300 to $800. Equally, you can add the option of (dare I say better looking) gaming to your PC by installing a midrange GPU into your existing basic home machine that you use for email etc.

See? Gaming isn't that expensive on PC if you already own one and don't buy a pre-assembled machine.

-----
Quote by s.o.u.p!
"WTF? What do you think I'm going to do? Make you hold a carrot and chant like a nun while a sodomize your cat?"
E6600,965P-DS3, ATI HD 2900XT, 4x1Gb 667MHz generic, Chimei 22" D

17747114553 
3/8/08 11:15:03 AM
Primarch
Quote by elmo198
Console is a console thats that..
console can not be compare to a personal computer.
They are not the samething, though you might think they serve the same purpose. They are not even in the same league.

PC in general is a multi task whore, while a console is not. Console might be able to do other stuff, you can't server movies, run a web/db + gateway server all at the same time while playing your favouite game and watch movie + TV all in the same time frame. Console is limited and should only be used for what it is designed for, "A lounge Room entertainment unit".

PC is in every way suprior. Cost of a PC can not be compare to a console, as the PC can do much more at the sametime than a console could. I like owning a full range socket set(PC) as to owning a ¾ socket ranch (console). Or you can say is like owning your entire lounge room entertainment unit all bundle up into one which is the humble personal computer.. the cost of all stuff in your lounge is obviously more than a console..

That being said, console is still a great thing to have, is like owning an arcade machine, is fast and with little fuss can get you your eye candy fix.



I thought we were debating pro's and con's of PC and Console GAMING . Your argument is completely irrelevant.

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Takoma 
4/8/08 12:53:14 AM
Hero
Immortal


I'm a PC gamer, for one big reason, keyboard and mouse.

With the exception of fighting and racing games, EVERYTHING plays better on KB+MS. I wouldn't want to play Tekken on the keyboard, but then I refuse to play FPS on a pad. Maybe thumbsticks are a lost art for me, but I just can't imagine how you're supposed to be anywhere near as accurate with them. I believe this is reflected in the celebrated console FPS games, GoldenEye and Halo. As a PC FPS'er from the days of Wolf3D, hearing everyone rave on about GoldenEye confuses and infuriates me. Sure, it was, at the time, the best FPS consoles had ever seen, but on what planet is it supposed to rival Half Life, released shortly after? Same for Halo, (of which I've only played the first, and only on PC, I'll happily admit.) Sure, it was a leap forward for CONSOLE shooters, but I think that's an important context. Playing it, from my perspective as a spoiled PC gamer, was like playing a cut-rate knock off. It's bland, repetitive, formulaic, and dreadfully dull next to even Q3:A, released a year earlier, and which held no pretences about redefining the FPS genre.

Quite aside from which, and bearing in mind that ten minutes on the Xbox360 comprises my entire current-gen console experience, the graphics just can't compete. Now, before I start sounding too superficial, let me clarify my point. Having gotten used to high-res gaming, I find it incredibly difficult to make out console graphics. This is another point against GoldenEye, which was painfully blurry and indistinct, and it's absolutely crippling in games like Gran Turismo 4, which requires quick thinking and a good eye at 300km/h. Most of the time I can't even make out which way the track goes, it's that bad. If you're used to consoles, maybe it's easier, and I'm sure the current breed of HD consoles will help this enormously. But Gran Turismo 4's blurry, low res visuals make it hard for me to see the track, and that's a pretty fucking fatal flaw. Especially next to say, Need For Speed Underground 2 on PC, which runs razor sharp at 1280x1024 on my 19" and makes everything crystal clear.

I realise they don't attempt to imitate each other's visual style, but this isn't about design. It's about being able to see where my car's pointed. To make matters worse, UG2 takes place in a detailed city with bright lights, street furniture, oncoming traffic, and other real-world clutter, and still manages to be conducive to high speed racing. GT4, at least the bits I played, often stick to the track, with far less paraphernalia and wide open tarmac. That I still can't see the corner coming up is a pretty strong argument, at least to my mind.

Again, I haven't played the current consoles in any meaningful capacity, so it's quite possible this argument has been negated somewhat. I can speak only from my own experience.

It's not that I hate consoles. I will play SNES until I die, and I'm eventually going to buy a PS3, because I love my fighting games and there's no denying they play best on console. Hell, they generally don't even see a release for PC anyway. I've always said if you've got Tekken, I'll buy your console, and I'm absolutely PISSING IN MY PANTS waiting for Street Fighter IV. But apart from that, I believe just about everything else plays better on PC, and I wouldn't trade Mighty RockBox, or the money I've spent on her, for all the casual-gaming lounge-room Singstar games under the sun.

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There is no knowledge that is not power.

colganaitor 
4/8/08 1:01:15 AM
Master

Quote by Takoma
I'm a PC gamer, for one big reason, keyboard and mouse.

With the exception of fighting and racing games, EVERYTHING plays better on KB+MS. I wouldn't want to play Tekken on the keyboard, but then I refuse to play FPS on a pad. Maybe thumbsticks are a lost art for me, but I just can't imagine how you're supposed to be anywhere near as accurate with them. I believe this is reflected in the celebrated console FPS games, GoldenEye and Halo. As a PC FPS'er from the days of Wolf3D, hearing everyone rave on about GoldenEye confuses and infuriates me. Sure, it was, at the time, the best FPS consoles had ever seen, but on what planet is it supposed to rival Half Life, released shortly after? Same for Halo, (of which I've only played the first, and only on PC, I'll happily admit.) Sure, it was a leap forward for CONSOLE shooters, but I think that's an important context. Playing it, from my perspective as a spoiled PC gamer, was like playing a cut-rate knock off. It's bland, repetitive, formulaic, and dreadfully dull next to even Q3:A, released a year earlier, and which held no pretences about redefining the FPS genre.

Quite aside from which, and bearing in mind that ten minutes on the Xbox360 comprises my entire current-gen console experience, the graphics just can't compete. Now, before I start sounding too superficial, let me clarify my point. Having gotten used to high-res gaming, I find it incredibly difficult to make out console graphics. This is another point against GoldenEye, which was painfully blurry and indistinct, and it's absolutely crippling in games like Gran Turismo 4, which requires quick thinking and a good eye at 300km/h. Most of the time I can't even make out which way the track goes, it's that bad. If you're used to consoles, maybe it's easier, and I'm sure the current breed of HD consoles will help this enormously. But Gran Turismo 4's blurry, low res visuals make it hard for me to see the track, and that's a pretty fucking fatal flaw. Especially next to say, Need For Speed Underground 2 on PC, which runs razor sharp at 1280x1024 on my 19" and makes everything crystal clear.

I realise they don't attempt to imitate each other's visual style, but this isn't about design. It's about being able to see where my car's pointed. To make matters worse, UG2 takes place in a detailed city with bright lights, street furniture, oncoming traffic, and other real-world clutter, and still manages to be conducive to high speed racing. GT4, at least the bits I played, often stick to the track, with far less paraphernalia and wide open tarmac. That I still can't see the corner coming up is a pretty strong argument, at least to my mind.

Again, I haven't played the current consoles in any meaningful capacity, so it's quite possible this argument has been negated somewhat. I can speak only from my own experience.

It's not that I hate consoles. I will play SNES until I die, and I'm eventually going to buy a PS3, because I love my fighting games and there's no denying they play best on console. Hell, they generally don't even see a release for PC anyway. I've always said if you've got Tekken, I'll buy your console, and I'm absolutely PISSING IN MY PANTS waiting for Street Fighter IV. But apart from that, I believe just about everything else plays better on PC, and I wouldn't trade Mighty RockBox, or the money I've spent on her, for all the casual-gaming lounge-room Singstar games under the sun.



+1

-----
John Connor: We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
The Terminator: It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.
John Connor: Yeah. Major drag, huh?

superfireydave 
4/8/08 2:17:25 AM
Titan

Well, I've recently started using my PC only for work, and my PS3 for gaming.
It's working out pretty well.
Everything's 720p upscaled to 1080p or natural 1080p on my 24" monitor (one of the monitors I also use for my PC).
Games run smoothly on it, and are very very comparable in all areas to the same games running on my PC - infact, most look better on the PS3. My laptop cost over 5k when I got it last year and came with nothing, my PS3 cost just over $700 with 5 new games and a new controller. It'd certainly be hard to make a barebones computer that came close to performing as well as the PS3 does at the moment, and even if you were to upgrade your old heap of junk you might not touch it.

While I do agree that keyboard and mouse is better for fps, that's not solely a PC versus Console arguement - it's an input method arguement. It's more than feasible that you can use your keyboard and mouse in a console game. The developers have not opted to use it though, so it's their fault - not the consoles. The same goes for PC, it's ridiculously easy to plug a controller in and use it. I don't particularly like FPS's on gamepads. But for everything else a gamepad is very usable (racing, 3rd person action, fighting, etc).

Tak: You can't see GT4's track because you're probably using a shitty converter. It's not "that" low res (480p with component?), and certainly 1280 x 1024 is not "high" res.

I do think a lot of console games are dumbed down however, which shits me to tears.

Consoles are made specifically for gaming (you can argue the media shit all you want, but you're just wanking. Media functionality is a sideshow to the primary purpose - gaming) whereas PC's are multi purpose items. As such, for the same price a multi purpose item will never perform as well as a single purpose item purely because the multi purpose item has so many bases to cover.
I still kinda prefer PC gaming though, it just feels more familiar and less dumbed down I guess.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

Apocrypha 
4/8/08 1:33:09 PM
Master

Not a fair comparison Dave, see my above points.

Can you ever imagine a world in which you DO NOT, for whatever reason, own a PC of any description?

No? Didn't think so. And surely you can imagine that you can slap in a $200 GPU (a 4850, for example) and use your PC -- bought for work purposes or whatever -- as a gaming machine?

Hey presto, a cheap bought-last-year PC with a Conroe CPU, decent RAM (you might even upgrade, DDR2 is stupidly cheap) etc. etc. plus one graphics card equals better gaming performance than any console and then some.

i.e.

Basic work PC + mid-range graphics card = gaming platform > PS3 + X360.

That's the truth man, and we should all know it.

-----
Quote by s.o.u.p!
"WTF? What do you think I'm going to do? Make you hold a carrot and chant like a nun while a sodomize your cat?"
E6600,965P-DS3, ATI HD 2900XT, 4x1Gb 667MHz generic, Chimei 22" D

superfireydave 
4/8/08 5:30:26 PM
Titan

Quote by Apocrypha
Not a fair comparison Dave, see my above points.

Can you ever imagine a world in which you DO NOT, for whatever reason, own a PC of any description?

No? Didn't think so. And surely you can imagine that you can slap in a $200 GPU (a 4850, for example) and use your PC -- bought for work purposes or whatever -- as a gaming machine?

Hey presto, a cheap bought-last-year PC with a Conroe CPU, decent RAM (you might even upgrade, DDR2 is stupidly cheap) etc. etc. plus one graphics card equals better gaming performance than any console and then some.

i.e.

Basic work PC + mid-range graphics card = gaming platform > PS3 + X360.

That's the truth man, and we should all know it.


Can you think of a world where you don't own a TV for any reason?

A basic computer + a midrange graphics card is in no way a better gaming platform (especially at 1920 x 1200) than a PS3 or 360. As I said before, it's a case of a business based OS on a multipurpose machine versus a gaming based enclosed system with an easier development environment.

My parents work computer cost $800 to build at the beginning of the year. To upgrade it to something that would play games in a similar manner to my PS3 or a 360 you'd have to upgrade the CPU (so, maybe $300), upgrade the GPU ($400 for a card with good performance), and even then you don't have any games or anything else for it, and your performance will still be less than that of a 360 or PS3 .

So you've spent a total of $1500 on a box which doesn't play games any better than a ps3 or 360. Fuck yeah.

Apart from that, you expect people are willing to game on their work machine. I don't do it often (usually the month before I plan to format if I do), mainly because I want/need a clean development environment.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

Takoma 
4/8/08 6:39:06 PM
Hero
Immortal


Quote by superfireydave
Can you think of a world where you don't own a TV for any reason?


I don't mean to be facetious, but yes, that was me until recently. The only reason I have one at all is because my Grandma gave it to me before a garage sale. Before that, I hadn't owned a TV since I moved out of home, almost a decade ago.

That's me though, and I didn't have TV growing up, so I don't watch it at all. Still can't watch it, need a roof aerial where I am and mine's broken :P

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There is no knowledge that is not power.

superfireydave 
4/8/08 6:42:35 PM
Titan

Quote by Takoma
Quote by superfireydave
Can you think of a world where you don't own a TV for any reason?


I don't mean to be facetious, but yes, that was me until recently. The only reason I have one at all is because my Grandma gave it to me before a garage sale. Before that, I hadn't owned a TV since I moved out of home, almost a decade ago.

That's me though, and I didn't have TV growing up, so I don't watch it at all. Still can't watch it, need a roof aerial where I am and mine's broken :P


I'm just saying, it's possible to live without either =P



edit: I just realised my PS3 can do graphic work, word processing, spreadsheets and a heap of other stuff too. Internet is required for that, but fuck me if it can't do a heap of stuff a PC can do, and it'll do it cheaper.

Sure, it wont approach a PC in terms of flexibility for those applications, but a PC can't begin to approach a console for ease of development and game performance because of the nature of the PC platform and the windows OS.


Edited by superfireydave: 5/8/2008 01:32:41 AM

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

Apocrypha 
5/8/08 8:13:09 AM
Master

Man, I'm a gamer, not a developer, I don't care if PC requires you to master ancient Mayan code to write programs for it.

Even in your example about your parents' work computer, you are being unfair. Without going into the specs, I'd wager that all you need in it is a 4850 and away you go, happy 720p gamer. Same as what the X360 runs at, and in most games, you can happily run at 1080p. Plus those costs you list are an exaggeration. Buy an E8400 for $189 from MSY and a 4850 from Megaware for $197 and you have a sub-$400 upgrade to your PC that will let you play any game you want for the rest of this year, and even enable some decent eye candy too.

And yes, I LIVE in a world without a TV. They have beena rort for years. I use my 2707WFP and a $50 TV card and get a better picture at a higher res for $850 that what I would get buying a $2000 32" full HD LCD. And if I bought a console I could just slap it in via HDMI-DVI or component.

TVs and consoles are for people that want to consume entertainment and don't think about the costs, or, more importantly, they do not explore the alternatives.

PC + TV card + bluray drive + decent GPU + big LCD monitor = win.

P.S. Games are cheaper on PC, you can order from overseas, or from Steam etc., or torrent them.


Edited by Apocrypha: 5/8/2008 08:20:36 AM

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Quote by s.o.u.p!
"WTF? What do you think I'm going to do? Make you hold a carrot and chant like a nun while a sodomize your cat?"
E6600,965P-DS3, ATI HD 2900XT, 4x1Gb 667MHz generic, Chimei 22" D

I)ickie 
5/8/08 10:33:20 AM
Serf
Quote by Takoma
I'm a PC gamer, for one big reason, keyboard and mouse.

SNIP



I agree with this to a certain degree.
More with the general idea that a keyboard and mouse is much better for somethings whereas a gamepad is better for others.

Keyboard and mouse dominates:
FPS, Strategy

Gamepad dominates:
Fighting, platformer, adventure, Racing

I think in the end it comes down to the kind of games that you enjoy.
I tend to play a little of both so i bought both :p

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superfireydave 
5/8/08 11:58:17 AM
Titan

Quote by Apocrypha
Man, I'm a gamer, not a developer, I don't care if PC requires you to master ancient Mayan code to write programs for it.

Even in your example about your parents' work computer, you are being unfair. Without going into the specs, I'd wager that all you need in it is a 4850 and away you go, happy 720p gamer. Same as what the X360 runs at, and in most games, you can happily run at 1080p. Plus those costs you list are an exaggeration. Buy an E8400 for $189 from MSY and a 4850 from Megaware for $197 and you have a sub-$400 upgrade to your PC that will let you play any game you want for the rest of this year, and even enable some decent eye candy too.

So that's $1200 for a computer that plays games worse than a 360 or PS3. Wow. Good call.

And yes, I LIVE in a world without a TV. They have beena rort for years. I use my 2707WFP and a $50 TV card and get a better picture at a higher res for $850 that what I would get buying a $2000 32" full HD LCD.
How exactly do you get your TV at a higher res than 1080p given that most high def TV isn't even broadcasted at 1080p let alone a resolution higher? Please, tell me - I'm really intrigued.
And if I bought a console I could just slap it in via HDMI-DVI or component.

TVs and consoles are for people that want to consume entertainment and don't think about the costs, or, more importantly, they do not explore the alternatives.

PC + TV card + bluray drive + decent GPU + big LCD monitor = win.

Yeah, because the PC + the drive + the GPU will be cheaper in any way shape or form than a console. Another good call.
P.S. Games are cheaper on PC, you can order from overseas, or from Steam etc., or torrent them.
This is pretty much the only legitimate point you've managed to pull out of your ass. Cheaper prices. And you're right - games are cheaper on PC. That, and the PC has some really nice exclusive titles plus it gets most 360 exclusives.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

Fat_Bodybuilder 
5/8/08 1:52:56 PM
Titan

I just bought an XBOX controller for my PC, wireless, black, sexy. Now I am able to play my racing sims AND my other games on PC with an awesome feeling of enjoyment.

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Q6600 at 3.330GHz | TRU 120 | X38-DS4 | TJ07 | OCZ S.O.E. PC6400 | 2 x WDC 320GB | HD 4870

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