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(i dont believe myself) PC vs Console
Master_Scythe 
5/7/08 8:02:42 PM
Titan

ARGH! THE FANBOIS! THE FLAMING! MAKE IT STOP!

oh, i saw my own title and assumed the worst.

Discussing Consoles vs PC games with Dark_Maverik on MSN, and thus far, despite being a PC user, I pretty much only game on consoles.

However, I'm yet to see many console advantages.

Trying not to fanboi anything up here, what i see PC's have going for them is:

Resolution:
cant even get TV's to the resolution of PC monitors, let alone all games

AntiAliasing:
afaik consoles dont do it, do they? The halo series says no to me, Im sure anyone whos played knows about the distance 'white out' effect they employ, as if you're playing in heavy fog at a distance. I think its a way of cutting the corner.

'Full Quality':
Games released for PC have their 'super graphics mode' available, because consoles work on set hardware, they have a pre-determined max quality

Controls:
Keyboard and Mouse is always superior IMO, however, even if people dont agree, PC's can use pads, most consoles cant use keyboards and mice.

Scalability:
I can run UT3 on my old PC on low.
I cant run Halo 3 on my original Xbox by 'turning it down'

-----------------------------------

The usual Console Pros: (and i think counters)

Ease of Use:
Plug and go (though with later games, we seem to be in the era of 'patches' and 'firmware' even for consoles)

Cost:
Often a console is cheaper, but with the PS3, thats not the case ATM. even the Xbox360 can be PC rivaled at its price range.

Loading:
Loading a console game is usually faster. And no install times.
I'll give it the no install times, however, If you drop your PC to the same level of quality as a console uses, you'd more than likely see loading times disapear too.

----------------------------------------------------------

So as such, Id like to keep this a calm discussion for and againt consoles and PC's.

I would greatly appreciate if we could keep the 'has no good games' arguments out of it, and focus on the games that are good, and the pros and cons of each hardware platform.

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4200+X2 939, ASUS A8N-SLI-D, Ati HD3850, 1gb,1tb total HDD, 109 DVD, LG DVD-rom.
Quote by Girvo
I've got a wicked tiny one that is ridiculously sensitive.



SquallStrife 
5/7/08 11:18:48 PM
Titan

Hmm...

Xbox 360 can now be had for < $300 @ BigW. It will simply blow any $300 complete PC plain out of the water.

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Q6600 @ 3.6GHz | 8800GTS | XP x64 | Vista HP x64 | OSX 10.5.2

sirsquidness 
6/7/08 7:58:53 AM
Champion

I *think* (dont' quote me) that the PS3 and XBox 360 support normal USB keyboards and mice now? Not sure, I dont' own either of them, and to be honest, I've barely touched either of them either. still, the games have to support them.

For the average user, the plug and play aspect of them is a huge advantage over having to set a PC up properly.


I'm not going to drop down in to this debate though. Both are just as valid as the other to gaming. Some people like one, others the other. As long as they don't start saying the other is horrible and can't play games *twitch*

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The one. The only. SirSquidness.

If I have a witty signature, will it make people love me?

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bastard 
6/7/08 6:53:22 PM
Titan

Playing on my couch in front of my telly without having to hunch over a keyboard and mouse is far more appealing than playing sitting up at a desk. Simple as that really.

It all comes to how you want to play games.

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You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

tr0110p 
7/7/08 9:04:10 AM
Charge
consoles are for kiddies, and are toy-like, kids buy them so they don't have to work nothin' out.
PC's are for people who do other stuff besides playing games, like having jobs, and paying for high end cards, etc.

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Jeruselem 
7/7/08 9:12:05 AM
Champion

My biggest complaint about consoles is everything is so locked down from the manufacturer. I don't like the TV as screen as most of mine are pretty crappy TVs and the good one is attached to main entertainment system.

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PC 1: XP Home SP2, Opty 165@1.8Ghz, GEIL 1GB PC3200, 320GB SATA Cuda ES,XFX 9600GSO 580/700x2/1450, Seasonic S12+ 550W
PC 2: XP Home SP2, XP 3000+@2.24 Ghz, 1GB PC3200, 80GB IDE,ASUS nVidia 6800 512MB, GTR iCute 450W

tr0110p 
7/7/08 9:13:57 AM
Charge
my PC IS my TV
do that with yer console!

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Master_Scythe 
7/7/08 11:48:45 AM
Titan

For one, yes the consoles SUPPORT keyboard\mouse, but i still canbt play Halo3 with one without a 3rd party converter. So no, PC still wins there IMO. as i can just plug a controller in.

I think the biggest letdown is graphics honestly.

Not trying to put him down, but talking to Dark_Mav. he said something along the lines of :
"if you did a direct PC port of MGS4 it'd look the same as on PS3"

Even if i had to open the Grpahics card options and force them myself, I guarantee that with:

8X AA
Higher resolution
and IMO, better reflections\smoke\lighting\etc thanks to DirectX

Id notice a huge difference, even with my fucked eyes.

This is why in my mind, my console and PC server very different gaming purposes.

My Wii is purely for 'when friends come round', as its plug, go, who cares about quality, options etc.

However, jump to the realm of Online gaming, 'Graphics wars', and serious gaming, and this falls apart.

The PS3 and 360, IMO, are treading on the realm of Online, the PS3 especially is screaming about how awesome its graphics are (despite lacking AA), and 'console lans' have been a done thing for a while now!

These areas are where console will always lose, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find an argument against on those points. The PC will always look better than current consoles, Online gaming is just lame on consoles, ive had vast experience using LIVE, and Lanning, if you're bringing hardware bring the real deal.
Consoles win only in convenience imo, and when you start lugging them around, matching firmware, maps, and requiring network hardware, you're no longer much easier than a PC.

Eventually I think consoles will have to allow dev kits. My original Xbox (soft modded) performs MUCH better than 360's. Ive used both.

Not only is my original xbox better at multiple roles, it has better connectivity, and is able to decode more file types. AT 720p!
See, here consoles gain some ground. however developers arent allowing this yet.

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4200+X2 939, ASUS A8N-SLI-D, Ati HD3850, 1gb,1tb total HDD, 109 DVD, LG DVD-rom.
Quote by Girvo
I've got a wicked tiny one that is ridiculously sensitive.



SquallStrife 
7/7/08 12:46:57 PM
Titan

"Not only is my original xbox better at multiple roles, it has better connectivity, and is able to decode more file types."

Bit unfair to make this comparison "IMO".

The Xbox 1 has been around for years, and can only do these things through 3rd party software.

What could the original xbox do out of the box? A hell of a lot less than the 360, that's for sure.

The limitations the 360 has on video playback is to protect the product's image. The oblivious public could think the 360 is "shit" when it's just their horrible overcompressed cam copy. The reason for using UPnP instead of shares is to simplify the process for knobs.

As for quality, show me a $300 total PC (Case, psu, ram, mobo, cpu, gpu, keyb, mouse, operating system. No screen.) that can do Gears of War at 1080i...

You're expecting consoles to BE computers. They're not. They're not supposed to be. They never will be. They serve a different primary purpose in the home, and they are equipped to do so. They're for kicking back and playing games, with zero fuss, and reasonable eye/ear candy.

That's the consoles' advantage. It's NOT a computer.


Edited by SquallStrife: 7/7/2008 12:48:54 PM

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Q6600 @ 3.6GHz | 8800GTS | XP x64 | Vista HP x64 | OSX 10.5.2

kolekta 
7/7/08 2:15:46 PM
Champion

but, they're plastic toys - until I need a BlueRay player, I'll give them a miss
wouldn't use them for gaming, I've been spoilt.

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who are the thought police?

17747114553 
7/7/08 9:48:00 PM
Master
Quote by Master_Scythe
Resolution:
cant even get TV's to the resolution of PC monitors, let alone all games



You notice imperfections in graphics much more when you're face is 30cm away from a 21" monitor. Also, graphics on the PS3 and Xbox are now good enough that most of gamers couldn't give a damn if they got any better and would need the differences between Dx9 and Dx10 pointed out to them.


AntiAliasing:
afaik consoles dont do it, do they?



see above.


'Full Quality':
Games released for PC have their 'super graphics mode' available, because consoles work on set hardware, they have a pre-determined max quality



See above. Also, graphics get better the more a developer learns how to utilize the hardware.

On another note that statement would offend any artist in the gaming industry who has some sense of self worth. Being able to see the wrinkles on a stroggs nipple did not make Quake 4 a good looking game. The cartoonish/surreal art direction of Trackmania Sunrise means people still love its visuals today.


Controls:
Keyboard and Mouse is always superior IMO, however, even if people dont agree, PC's can use pads, most consoles cant use keyboards and mice.



I agree with you. For SOME genres KB&M are better. But try implementing proper KB&M controls on a device that people use while laying back on a couch. It's better to optimise controls on a standard pad.


Scalability:
I can run UT3 on my old PC on low.
I cant run Halo 3 on my original Xbox by 'turning it down'



Doesn't this argument defeat your prior argument about a PC's graphic superiority? And UT is an exception. Most games don't scale that well while keeping the graphics reasonable.



Ease of Use:
Plug and go (though with later games, we seem to be in the era of 'patches' and 'firmware' even for consoles)



Haven't heard much of this for games. For consoles the firmware updates are usually to add new features.


Cost:
Often a console is cheaper, but with the PS3, thats not the case ATM. even the Xbox360 can be PC rivaled at its price range.



No. A few hundred dollars every 5 years will always be cheaper than a PC upgrade path.


Loading:
Loading a console game is usually faster. And no install times.



This is one instance where I'm gona hit the PC camp and say you're wrong. There's already the occasional game where consoles are forced to install games. And anyone who's played PS2 games on a HDD will tell you that load times are much faster on PC. Oh and not having to put a damn disk in the drive each time you wana play a different game is rather nice.


Quote by SquallStrife
The Xbox 1 has been around for years, and can only do these things through 3rd party software.



That sounds allot like Windows :-P



Edited by 17747114553: 7/7/2008 9:50:19 PM

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The Dude 1 
7/7/08 11:44:36 PM
Initiate
Consoles are good for games and ease of use until they break. when they go on a massive scale like the 360 did it sucks. I traded my (red ring of death)360 for a pc that I,ve slowly upgraded. At least I can fix my pc myself.

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confined 
8/7/08 12:43:03 AM
Immortal

In my experience:

* Consoles are cheap to maintain compared to PCs - you generally don't pirate games but you don't have to change your hardware every ten minutes to play the latest games.

* PCs have more general functionality.

* You can expect every game to work and at a decent level of performance on a console, whereas there is a decent chance of hardware incompatibility and/or performance issues with PCs.

* Consoles are much more sociable, and people don't bat an eyelid when you propose playing some PS/Xbox/Wii games.

* Controllers can function in any position. Keyboard and mouse need to be on the correct surfaces to operate at a decent level.

* Some genres are better suited to PC such as FPS/RTS, some are better suited to consoles such as hack 'n' slash/action adventure games.

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Voyevoda.

DarknStormy 
8/7/08 7:47:11 AM
Overlord

I like PC's because I find thumb pads difficult to use.

Can you LAN PC's with consoles nowadays?


Edited by DarknStormy: 8/7/2008 7:48:28 AM

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Burn thou fiend, Before the fire of the eye of Ra!
MSN: enduro_dude_84@live.com

Tobleki 
13/7/08 2:33:35 PM
Journeyman
a consol (excluding the wii) will beat a media centre pc for most things unless you spend serious amounts of money on it the only thing a consol can't to is record tv but if your really wanted that you could by a tv tuner for your computer and just stream the shows across once you have recorded them.

How many modern games can you get that allow multiplayer on the one computer? Consols are much MUCH better with group play.

That being said if you are a single player gamer or prefer playing online then i think computers do have the advantage.

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noobmelater 
13/7/08 3:31:53 PM
Banned

Resolution: Six of one half a dozen of the other, I don't playt console games to get super high resolutions and mostly I don't care, they're designed to play at the resolution so they just work anyway. For what it's worth the PS3, and Xbox 360 support 1080p or 1920x1200. You need a monitor bigger then 24" to be getting better resolution on a PC

AA: Xbox had it, Gamecube had it, PS2 didn't I'm not up to date with current consoles. But yes they do, do it even the Dreamcast had AA. It's more like edge blur in most cases but yes the Dreamcast had AA

Full Quality

Again six of one half a dozen of the other, but console games are built around this. Yes compare the limited range of games ported to PC and they look "better" if you have a high end video card but the flip side is that your better video card is generally worth the same amount if not more then a console, and that's even before you take into account the initial outlay to buy a PC

Controls:

For first person shooters, and some 3rd person shooters keyboard + mouse is better. If you play console type games adventure games, RPG's, fighters, and ETC pads, or sticks are better.

Ease of Use:

COnsoles win this handes down plug it in and go

Cost:

Consoles are inherently cheaper and always have been, yes even a PS3 and Xbox 360... add the cost of a video card that can perform as well as that in the above consoles plus a PC that's fast enough and you'll be well over $1000 either way you look at it

loading time:

Much of a muchness in terms of DVD based systems, Carts used to load quicker but the inherent fault with carts is the lack of storage space. I guess games loaded to HDD will load quicker, but you can do that on either a console or PC





It really is much of a muchness. The real issue with PC games is the lack of product range. Tell me the last time a decent adventure game, or RPG came out on the PC?

There really isn't a flagship product, and I'm not going to go into MMORPGS as that's a genre to itself.

There's just a complete range of games that never have been and never will be released on PC. Consoles have it in terms of game lineup and range it's as simple as that. PC's may be quicker, but only if you spend more then what it costs to buy the aforementioned consoles and then you wont have the game line up.

As an example No Mario(Wii), No Banjo Kazooie (360) No Sonic (PS3) and that's a whole genre in itself that sells millions upon millions of games world wide

All said it's entirely dependent on what games you choose to buy. If you're mostly into first person shooters buy a PC, otherwise buy a console because the game play, and game range is almost always better. Until companies such as Microsoft come up with a generic standard gaming pad for PC's that developers can work around this will always be the case. One of the biggest problems is that there are no standards. For example I play FIFA on my PC with a game pad as sports sims require it. Getting the buttons set correctly is a pain in the arse because there games aren't ported with a standard controller in mind, that's the issue, and that's why console ports of quite a lot of games SUCK!


Edited by noobmelater: 13/7/2008 4:00:45 PM

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Master_Scythe 
15/7/08 9:40:52 AM
Titan

Quote by noobmelater
It really is much of a muchness. The real issue with PC games is the lack of product range. Tell me the last time a decent adventure game, or RPG came out on the PC?



Good RPG's?
Bioshock and Oblivion jump to mind.
Besides, as a bit of an RPG fan (or at least having every friend under the sun who is, lol) i can promise you now, the general concensus is that RPGs are failing on every platform atm. nothing good is out. But each to their own.
I cant think of a game on Console i cant get an alternative on PC. Besides the specific copywrited characters' games, I honestly cant.

I mean, all my beat games are on here (Guitar hero, DDR, BeatMania, singstar)

For crazy racing type games on the one screen, i have the Sonic Series. Sonic Riders\ZeroGravity rock hard as a party game.

I want to agree, but to be honest, I think you'd find that more games are produced for PC than are produced for consoles. and the only reason consoles SEEM to have more, is because its all its got.

Its like little timmy with a toy, its all hes got, but if he jumps up and downa botu it enough you'll at least look at it.

And i didnt even bother about arguing for Emulation.

Now, next point

Tobleki , What on earth are you on about?
A console will do more than a media PC without spending big money? Im afraid you're very mistaken.
I have a $200 system behind me, its a low end intel dual core. With a GB of ram, and a 160gb HDD. all brand new.

I then installed VLC Player.

I can now play every file type, DVDs, Flash, look at whats on my TV tuner (and save it to a file even), upscale, and MUCH MUCH more that a fully fleged PC can do. all for under $350.

I also have Gb-PVR installed for a fully fledged media centre which can basically fully auto-config. And if i wanted it even easier, Id just insatll XP MCE.

I own a PS2, Wii (modded), xbox original (modded), mate owns a 360 and cousin owns a PS3.
Nothing except my modded consoles can play our more complex movie files. Let alone Flash content.

sorry dude, as you can see, i totally disagree.

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4200+X2 939, ASUS A8N-SLI-D, Ati HD3850, 1gb,1tb total HDD, 109 DVD, LG DVD-rom.
Quote by Girvo
I've got a wicked tiny one that is ridiculously sensitive.



noobmelater 
15/7/08 1:57:12 PM
Banned

Bioshock is a first person shooter with some RPG style elements. Oblivion I can agree with...

Maybe it's just me coming from a console background, and struggling to find the titles for my PC?

I won't deny that this is a possibility... I just think however that there's not a lot of fun games that aren't to serious. Sure Nintendo gets tagged with the "console for kids" but sit down and play some of these "kids games" and you'll find they're outright fun.

I don't know, i've got a high end PC but I always have felt that there's something missing. Emulators don't fix the issue either, they circumvent the fact you can't run console games on a PC but are generally a generation or two behind the actual consoles on the market... find me a PS2 or Xbox emulator that works with the majority of games... whilst its fun to sit down and play Dreamcast, or N64 games you're not playing any of the games currently on the market


Edited by noobmelater: 15/7/2008 2:10:27 PM

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The Fuzz damn you! 
15/7/08 2:06:12 PM
Mod
Hero

Immortal


For me, consoles won't even start approaching PC replacement status until we start getting console games that *require* 1080p (or at the very least 720p, which is a tad more realistic). HD gaming right now is pretty much a gimmick (which, I'll admit right now, I say without having any idea whether there are genuine HD console games out there).

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pheyo 
15/7/08 8:55:00 PM
Champion

Just buy both like me

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