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The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
IluvIntel 
5/5/06 11:30:41 PM
Serf
Something should be included explaining how PSU manufacturers have there units specs as such:

+12v1 +12v2 +12v3 -12v4
18A 18A 18A 13A

In the above example the total +12v rail is 52A, does this mean my system will always get 52Amps continuoulsy ?
When examining the total amps on the +12v rails, is this the peak output of the unit on that rail or the average sustained ?
What I'm getting at is the average sustained is more a realistic assesment. So how do you work out the average sustained from 52A total peak power as an example?

Quite a lot of PSU vendors advertise these measurements as peak power outpout.

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Cedar Mill 641 @ 4.92Ghz air cooled || Gigabyte GA-G1975X || Corsair 8000UL's || HIS X1900XTX vga || 4 x Maxtor 6V300FO & Raid-0 || Antec NeoHe 500W psu || CM Stacker original

mark84 
7/5/06 1:54:33 AM
Champion

That is a bit beyond the scope of this thread which is more about GFX power requirements than PSU capabilities, but I'll put forward my thoughts on the matter anyway.

First up your example PSU specs mean it'll be able to deliver 67A @ 12v (=804W). This is the peak amp output the PSU can provide.

I don't think I've ever seen an "average sustained" spec or reading for a PSU. Even if there is such a thing it'd be impossible to determine/calculate it from just the peak output as many things such as component quality and internal design would render any formula for such a thing useless. (I could be wrong but that's what I'd tend to think)

And no it doesn't mean your PC will always get 67A continuously. The PSU will only deliver what is required by the PC at that time, otherwise it'd fry your PC or be drawing max power all the time, which is just silly. Once the PSU has to deliver close to it's max rated amperage, the voltage on the stressed rail will start to fail and begin to drop. Once the voltage drops enough the PC might just shut off, might have some weird things happen or you could start damaging PC parts.

Just to be safe, if you could measure everything, try and keep several amps below the rated max of the PSU and you should be fine.

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

mark84 
17/5/06 8:00:08 PM
Champion

Quote by Mantai
geez im running a 9700 pro with a 330W PSU and soem new cards are allready doing 220W heh... i was looking in scorptech and saw some nvidia card coming with a spare power supply for intense gaming,


You thought that was bad, having an external power adapter, hows this http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/fsp-vga-power.html It's a powersupply that fists in a 5.25" drive bay and supplies up to 300W, designed just for video cards.

Updated the post with 7900 GX2, 7900 GTX, 7900 GT and updated the 7950 GX2 rating. Also changed the legend annotation scheme.

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT@XTX | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

Dasa 
20/5/06 5:58:02 PM
Titan

nice list
wonder how much power is my x1900xtx going to use when the waterblock arives and i crank it up to 1.57v :O

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Storm G5 opteron 170 2.7ghz dfi rdx200 x1900xtx 710c 810m 2x512&2x256 BH-5 245mhz-2226 2xRaptor74GB R0 pcp&c 510w CM Stacker Dell 24" 2405fpw Z-680

mnemonik23 
24/5/06 1:57:57 AM
Serf
Greetings from eXtremOV ;)

I must say mark84 you did a nice job with a list of cards.

Regarding "...some what inaccurate" - we are constantly updating the watts based on the latest reviews. But unfortunately you can not judge on a particular review, you need to have a few of them and even these reviews frequently show different W numbers for the same card.

So we do analyze all of the reviews and include justified numbers in our eXtreme PSU Calculator. And honestly, we found a few numbers in your list to be more accurate than ours :)

I'm glad that somebody else is researching this area and once again - good job!

Regards,
eXtremeOV

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mark84 
24/5/06 9:27:55 PM
Champion

Welcome to Atomic! Thanks for your input. Yeah the "some what inaccurate" part I should've removed during my last update, if you check the legend underneath the table I do say that your ratings are quite accurate but are a little conservative. (In fact I'll change it now)

As for getting differing wattage ratings with each review, I don't decide on what the rating is based on the average of several reviews or something, but more on how the rating is achieved. For instance, all the xbit labs ratings are extremely accurate as described on page 2 & 3 here http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-powercons_2.html they have a very accurate way of measuring the cards wattage. The fact that their readings are lower than your websites opinion leads me to believe that yours are a tiny bit conservative.

Reviews that measure a cards power consumption by measuring the whole PCs watt usage at idle and under load aren't very accurate in my opinion, as CPU and other subsystems usage goes up as well. If they put the PC under load without the discrete GFX card, measure PC wattage, then put the card in and measure it then, I'd consider those results to be fairly accurate.

So while I feel the ratings on your website aren't 100% accurate, they are an extremely good starting point.

Basically I'm just trying to provide as accurate a rating for GFX cards as possible to enlighten people that ATI’s, NVIDIA’s, etc PSU requirement recommendations are very conservative just to cover their backsides and that actual requirements are way less.

I really appreciate the effort you guys put into your website and with out it most of my list wouldn't even exists :)

So thanks once again and keep up the great work!
Cheers

EDIT - OMG just found out eXtremeOV have added the 2 FireGL cards that I have listed, and at the exact same wattage as I've listed! Coincidence?
/skips joyfully around room


Edited by mark84: 3/2/2008 8:57:21 PM

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT@XTX | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

mark84 
2/6/06 6:34:57 AM
Champion

Updated:
-7600GT
-7900GT
-X1800XL (was graphed higher than the rating)
-Most multicard configs had been updated at eXtremeOV, so I adjusted accordingly

Added:
-X1800GTO http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/powercolor-x1800gto.html

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT@XTX | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

mark84 
10/6/06 6:13:07 AM
Champion

Found this little piece of news http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2770

From the article:
-------------------------------
DirectX 10 GPUs to Consume up to 300W

ATI and NVIDIA have been briefing power supply manufacturers in Taiwan recently about what to expect for next year’s R600 and G80 GPUs. Both GPUs will be introduced in late 2006 or early 2007, and while we don’t know the specifications of the new cores we do know that they will be extremely power hungry. The new GPUs will range in power consumption from 130W up to 300W per card. ATI and NVIDIA won't confirm or deny our findings and we are receiving conflicting information as to the exact specifications of these new GPUs, but the one thing is for sure is that the power requirements are steep.

-------------------------------

I have to say that I can't really see a 300W graphics card coming even inside the next 12-18 months. ATI will be moving to a 80nm process for the 580+ GPU and they'll continue on using that process for the R600 DX10 part. So even if the R600 architecture is bigger than the current design, with the die shrink it should bring the overall die size back down to around what they are now. So I could see ATI possibly reaching the 130W mark with their R600.

NVIDIA on the other hand have only recently moved to 90nm. Their current 7900 series isn't even near 100W yet. It's only their 7950 GX2s in SLI that could reach the 300W mark combined. And if staying on the 90nm process I could see the G80 maybe around the 100W mark.

So unless you have a small PSU and need the extra juice for your GFX setup, these "GPU power supplies" are a bit gimmicky.

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT@XTX | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

souljah5 
27/6/06 12:11:18 AM
Serf

wow this made things alot clearer

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mark84 
28/6/06 5:52:53 PM
Champion

Glad to help souljah5 ;)

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT@XTX | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

mark84 
15/7/06 3:31:18 AM
Champion

Updated:
- 7950 GX2
- 7950 GX2 SLI (just doubled single rating)

Finally found a place with some readings that I can derive a reading from for the 7950. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060605-6983.html

They tested a system with a single 7950 GX2 and an X1900XTX, given we already know how much an XTX pulls I figured out that the 7950 would be pulling around 93W.

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT@XTX | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

chris_hart 
25/7/06 12:58:10 AM
Titan

hey mark sorry to spam in this thread but i was wondering what you would recommend for the following
AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3500+
A8N-SLI Premium
3gb Ram
Leadtek NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX (hmm its only using 8x pci express..)
250gb Sata Drive

a couple games artifact and stuff and yeah last time i had that happen with my 9800 pro it was power supply wondering what it is this time though.

btw my current power supply is a antec 430w one.

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macpegg 
25/7/06 4:11:26 AM
Serf
Hi, little help please

What power of PSU do you guys think i need..
I currently have a 400W Enermax Modular
Setup:
M2N32 Sli deluxe
AM2 3500+
XFX 6800XT 256
1Gb @ 533 mhz
745 Big Water cooling kit ( bearing in mind 1 rad and fan 120mm acting as the exhaust and 1 rad at 240mm and 2 120mm fans)
Intake fan and side door fan
Sata HD and 1 dvd rom, and 1 dvd writer

Now everything is runnig nicely.. but i want to add a second gfx for use in sli. im waiting for this in the post and im hoping i do not need to splash out £100 for a bigger PSU.. any ideas if i have enough power wth just the 400W..

thanx for any advice in advance

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morgoth 
25/7/06 9:38:45 PM
Hero
Titan


macpegg, I'd grab a 535w sli certified Enermax PSU for ~$120 brand new, that would be the best option in your case I'd say.

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Opteron 146@3Ghz||DFI NF4 UltraD||XFX7800GTX||2Gb TEAM Xtreem UCCC||730Gb||Enermax 535w SLI||Watercooled
#1 Atomic 3dmark01 for single core AMD
Founder of **Atomic Hardcore Techno-Metal Club**

chris_hart 
25/7/06 10:00:44 PM
Titan

any idea for me morgoth? is 430 enough?

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Virul 
25/7/06 10:59:27 PM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


It's not so much about the wattage, but more about the quality of the power supply itself.

Which Antec 430W power supply do you have?

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chris_hart 
26/7/06 12:46:11 PM
Titan

hey virul long time no bugging you! lol
just opened case, antec "True430".

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mark84 
26/7/06 3:52:58 PM
Champion

chris_hart - The fact that your getting artifacts and it's mysteriously running at 8x PCI-E could mean there's something wrong with the card itself. For that system though a 430W should be ok, I'd say though that any system built these days should have at least a 480W PSU. (That's just what I think though)

macpegg - From what I recall a 6800XT is a cut down 6800. So <35W each card. Two of those SLIed wouldn't pull more than 70W, if that. I reckon you'd be safe putting another 6800XT in your system.

I've also now updated some of the text below the ASCII graph, namely the "Getting power to them cards!" section plus some link references and some other bits here and there.

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4400+ @ 2.6GHz | HIS X1900XT@XTX | DFI Expert | Mushkin 991483 | Audigy2 ZS | 411S@811S | 109@A09XL | 4x80GB RAID0 |Gigabyte 3D Galaxy | Xaser III 1000D | ST60F |

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

chris_hart 
26/7/06 6:44:37 PM
Titan

actually, its two 8x pci slots anyways, i dont have twin 16s.... i fucking hope tooooooooooo anything that nothings wrong with this card.... fuck.,.

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macpegg 
27/7/06 7:06:51 PM
Serf
Quote by mark84
chris_hart - The fact that your getting artifacts and it's mysteriously running at 8x PCI-E could mean there's something wrong with the card itself. For that system though a 430W should be ok, I'd say though that any system built these days should have at least a 480W PSU. (That's just what I think though)

macpegg - From what I recall a 6800XT is a cut down 6800. So <35W each card. Two of those SLIed wouldn't pull more than 70W, if that. I reckon you'd be safe putting another 6800XT in your system.

I've also now updated some of the text below the ASCII graph, namely the "Getting power to them cards!" section plus some link references and some other bits here and there.



Thanx bud ya a star. :-)
XFX couldn`t even answer my question!

With these cards having Molex ports, i have yet to grab a hold of PCI to Molex converters that i know for defo that they will work.. I don`t fancy mucking around wires incase i make a stupid mistake. but thats for a different thread...
Thanx again.


Edited by macpegg: 27/7/2006 7:12:00 PM

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