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Get into the heart of your box, then juice it for all it's worth
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abz0ract
25/11/02 7:52:45 PM
Guru
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Temperatures explained.
There is always questions about temperatures posted on these forums.
This post, is to hopefully answer some of those questions.
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Contents:
1) What is the NORMAL operating temperature for my CPU?
2) What Intel say
3) What AMD say
4) How hot is the maximum for my CPU?
-a) Maximum operating temperature for an AMD Duron Processor.
-b) Maximum operating temperature for an AMD Athlon XP Processor.
-c) Maximum operating temperature for an AMD Athlon Processor.
-d) Maximum operating temperature for an AMD K6 Processor.
-e) Maximum operating temperature for an Intel Celeron Processor.
-f) Maximum operating temperature for an Intel P3 Processor.
-g) Maximum operating temperature for an Intel P4 Processor.
5) How hot is too hot for a decent overclock of my CPU?
6) Case Temperatures What's hot, and what's not?
7) A bunch of relivent URL's
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1: What is the NORMAL operating temperature for my CPU?
This, I took from a document AMD have listed as the "thermal solutions" guide. I think is a great document, than answers SO many AMD related posts made on these forums... the link is supplied below (you are looking for the link to the AMD thermal guide)
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS CONTINUED...
2.1. Thermal solutions
2.1.a What is the normal operating temperature of my processor?
2.1.b What is the maximum operating temperature of my processor?
2.1.c What temperature value should be reported by the BIOS?
2.1.d I am running a temperature monitoring software, what temperature reading am I expected to see?
Answer (Same for all):
Our current AMD processors are specified to have a die temperature of 0°C - 90°C or 0°C -95°C, depending on the CPU model.
These are the temperature ranges we specify our products to. We cannot guarantee any reading you get from the motherboard, using the BIOS or
third party monitoring software. As a general guideline, the temperature difference between the die and the bottom of the CPU is about 30°C.
It is worth noting that the maximum temperature of the CPU is reached when running heavy applications such as 3D Games etc… Therefore one
should allow an extra 10-15°C for safety if you are reading from the BIOS set up.
An approximation to the typical reading from a BIOS or an external software utility is expected to be around 60ºC-65ºC or lower.
Also, This is taken directly from the "ASK AMD" service on the AMD website, i realy don't think it could be better said than this:
What is the normal operating temperature of an AMD Athlon™ or AMD Duron™ Processor?
System Operating Temperatures Will Vary
The operating temperature of a system or processor is highly dependent on the characteristics of the system as a whole and the combination of components that make up the system. Consequently, the "normal" operating temperature will vary from system to system, depending on each system's make-up. Some of the variables that affect the operating temperature of a system are: case size, air flow characteristics, installed components, processor speed, processor heatsink/fan solution, thermal interface material, power supply, voltage settings, workload, and ambient air temperature.
Although "normal" operating temperatures are not specified for AMD processors, there are maximum operating temperature ratings that must not be exceeded. The maximum operating temperature of a processor may be determined by the processor's Ordering Part Number (OPN). Refer to the processor's data sheet for additional information (data sheets may be downloaded from the Technical Documents page). Typically, the maximum operating temperatures for Socket A AMD Athlon™ and AMD Duron™ desktop processors are 90 degrees Celsius for processors operating up to 1GHz, and 95 degrees Celsius for processors operating above 1GHz.
Note: The maximum operating temperature specification is based on a measurement taken directly from the top center of the processor die. The temperature reported by a system's BIOS may not reflect the true temperature of the processor if the measurement is taken from an alternative location. Additionally, the reported temperature will be affected by the accuracy of the thermal probe, hardware monitor, and analog to digital signal conversion. As a result, some variance should be allowed when comparing the maximum operating temperature to the temperature reported by the system's BIOS.
I think a few great points are made, and are applicable to whatever CPU you use. "The operating temperature of a system or processor is highly dependant on the characteristics of the system as a whole" - Thats excatly what I want to say :-), also, the point made in the "note" at the bottom, that the maximum operating temperature is measured from directly on top of the cpu core. Most, or alot, of CPU/motherboard combinations rely on an external probe for measuring this temperature. And just like AMD say, the temperature reported could be a little different to actual temperature in this location :-)
2: What Intel say
Thermal Management
Proper "thermal management" depends on two major elements: a heatsink properly mounted to the processor, and effective airflow through the system chassis. The ultimate goal of thermal management is to keep the processor at or below its maximum operating temperature.
Proper thermal management is achieved when heat is transferred from the processor to the system air, which is then vented out of the system. Boxed Pentium 4 processors are shipped with a high-quality variable speed fan heatsink, which can effectively transfer processor heat to the system air. It is the responsibility of the system integrator to ensure adequate system airflow.
3: What AMD say
The operating temperature of a processor is highly dependent on the induced workload, ambient temperature, and the efficiency of the cooling sub-system. However, the operating temperature should never exceed the processor's specified maximum operating temperature rating. For optimal performance, use a heatsink solution evaluated and recommended by AMD. A list of these recommended solutions is available on AMD's Thermal Solutions page for the AMD Athlon XP processor.
4: How hot is the maximum for my CPU?
Of course, this differs with different CPU’s, and infact, some CPU’s of the same family will continue to operate at a higher temperature than others (we are talking about fairly extreme temperatures here) But as a rough guide, showing only later model CPU’s you will fine the answer to your question below.
a: Maximum operating temperature for an AMD Duron Processor.
http://139.95.253.213:80/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=40,E=0000000000049927792,K=9830,Sxi=0,Case
b: Maximum operating temperature for an AMD Athlon XP Processor.
http://ask.amd.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=37,E=0000000000021248439,K=4781,Sxi=5,Case=obj(3
c: Maximum operating temperature for an AMD Athlon Processor.
http://139.95.253.213:80/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=40,E=0000000000049927792,K=9830,Sxi=0,Case
d: Maximum operating temperature for an AMD K6 Processor.
http://139.95.253.213:80/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=40,E=0000000000049927792,K=9830,Sxi=0,Case
e: Maximum operating temperature for an Intel Celeron Processor.
http://www.intel.com/support/processors/celeron/24767.htm#1
f: Maximum operating temperature for an Intel P3 Processor.
http://developer.intel.com/design/PentiumIII/qit/ (select CPU stepping)
g: Maximum operating temperature for an Intel P4 Processor.
http://developer.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/thermal.htm
*happy to add other processors on request :-)
5: How hot is too hot for a decent overclock of my CPU?
Yes, maximum temperature, and the temperature required for a stable overclock is very different. Again, this will differ between CPU flavours, but as a guide...
[to be inserted after someone types something up]
6: Case Temperatures What's hot, and what's not?
Obviously the case temperature is going to have a direct effect on the operating temperature of your CPU, as it is the environment in witch the CPU lives, so drop the case temperature, and you *should* drop the CPU temperature, I say *should* because it is possible to create such an environment to where case temperature may not effect the temperature of the CPU, for instance, if you have some fancy ducting inside the case, moving air from outside of the case, directly onto the CPU’s Heatsink & Fan. In general, you are going to want to have as low of a case temperature as is possible. There is hundreds of different case configurations, and hundreds of different possibilities of how you have your hardware positioned in the case. So a “general” guide to airflow in the case isn’t as easy as you would think. But, in “general” I guess one would have to suggest a front/bottom fan for intake, and back/top exhaust fan combination would be the best... (remember.... in *general* and it’s hard to generalise such a thing as a computer case/configuration) Do your best to get the airflow moving over some of your hot little computer components.
A simple guide to case cooling from AMD (You MUST think I am a fanboy with this many links from AMD ;-):
AMD Thermal Guide:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/FAQ_eng.pdf
7: A bunch of relivent URL's
Random CPU's tech data:
http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/tech/
[ I will put more of these in when i get home tonight, where I have them bookmarked :-) ]
By the way... Let me know if you want me to add data for other CPU's :-) there is more to come in this post.... by the way of editing :-)
has anyone else got anything to add?
Edited by abz0ract: 31/5/2003 11:56:54 AM -----
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silence11_au
25/11/02 8:47:31 PM
Champion
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Nicely said Abz0ract!!
Oh, one question... You are not a Hero because...? -----
[ Silence11_au@yahoo.com.au | home.iprimus.com.au/silence11 ]
[ GA-7VRXP | XP1800+ | V7+ | 768Mb PC2700 Kingmax ]
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Mac Dude
25/11/02 8:57:20 PM
Champion
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nice work dude. This should go in a glass case in v2 forums :-) -----
---Tagline Truncated, Author is an idiot---
ATA/IDE Questions : http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/archives.asp?a=Oct02&cat=te&top=62737
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abz0ract
25/11/02 9:00:32 PM
Guru
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thanks guys, but it is far from finished :-)
it's as much a call for input, as it is a post by me :-)
what other CPU's do people think warrant addition? -----
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silence11_au
25/11/02 11:03:59 PM
Champion
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maybe add the duron and the tunderbird... they are the only main ones that i can think of... -----
[ Silence11_au@yahoo.com.au | home.iprimus.com.au/silence11 ]
[ GA-7VRXP | XP1800+ | V7+ | 768Mb PC2700 Kingmax ]
[ GW 128Mb Ti4200 VIVO | 80Gb WD JB | 16x Slot Pioneer DVD ]
[ Fortissimo 3 | XPS510 | Antec 400watt | 17" Diamond Pro ]
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Digweed
25/11/02 11:48:52 PM
Champion
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First class post there.
silence11_au: thats what i think aswell, and he's not one because the gods prefer people who make funnies in the general section, rather than get down to computing and help, which the mag is all about.
I think the older Athlons and durons need to be added, i'll pull out my code sheet which tells me about volts, temps and all the rest in relation to core codes on the CPU and post it later on. -----
[1:18am] hi.
[1:20am] if you like incest with your parents, spam me with a link advertising 'SMS Flooderz'
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1bolHungLo
26/11/02 1:42:11 AM
Guru
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this needs to be made into a sticky thread. so that people quit asking is my box running too hot. -----
Body like a popstar, face like a rockstar. -Me
"But the speed difference is something only the most anal-retentive performance freaks would notice... " donutking
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abz0ract
26/11/02 10:24:20 AM
Guru
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ok, post is updated...
added a few more links for CPU's. and a few more quotes from AMD ;-)
oops, just noticed a spelling mistake or two.... i'll fix them later today, or tonight :-) -----
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abz0ract
28/11/02 2:41:00 PM
Guru
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anyone want to type something up for:
5: How hot is too hot for a decent overclock of my CPU?
Yes, maximum temperature, and the temperature required for a stable overclock is very different. Again, this will differ between CPU flavours, but as a guide...
[to be inserted after someone types something up]
?????
i supose it is easy enough for me to do it, but i think some atomic input for that bit is going to be required :-)
at what temperatures does your cpu overclock become un-stable?
[ stable = 100% CPU usage for periods of time 4hours and over ;-) ]
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vvega
28/11/02 9:18:03 PM
Primarch
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ok abz you asked for it :)
how hot is to hot for satbility and will lower temps help my overclock and lower the required voltage to make the overclock stable
can i have the resuls for both amd and intel!!
also what is a safe voltage to run my cpu at without the risk of silicon migration
and what is silicin migration and will tempatures make it worse or stop it from happening!!
what is the differnce bettwen the amd and intel chip construction
is it only the aluimium and copper interconects or is there more(asids from archetector)
what bout the new tbrad chips the t bred bs as and the new lower speced chips lets say um the 1700+ it runs at 1.5v when will silicon migration start for that ??
also will cryogenic cooling dammage my cpu???
all these and more on the next eposode of
ASK ABZORACT
:)
hop i didnt give you to much work
laters
v -----
Madness and Genius are separated only by varing degrees of success!
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vvega
28/11/02 9:21:16 PM
Primarch
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hehe dont worry abz i will answer tem :)
just getting ya worried
tomorrow :) -----
Madness and Genius are separated only by varing degrees of success!
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abz0ract
30/11/02 2:19:15 PM
Guru
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*bump*
heh, don't be silly vega :-) I am asking for people's results, not someone to ask the question :-)
I belive my time at at0mic is growing nearer to an end... -----
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grug
3/12/02 2:02:54 PM
Guru
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I hope this is going on Sunkensite...it deserves to.
"I believe my time at at0mic is growing nearer to an end..." .
Im of the same opinion...funny that. -----
Email: vlever@utas.edu.au
OCD = 56254 ABRD = 60111
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Bravo
3/12/02 3:37:10 PM
Primarch
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A note of importance. No thermal figures should be included when discussing overclocking. The CPU could operate day in day out at 70C, the prime concern being only stability.
Temperature is only discussed as a variable when determining the cause of instability, nothing else. I agree Temperature, and Stability arent mutally exclusive, quite the opposite.
Silicon migration is only a concern where inadequate cooling is used. It will not shorten any Copper Interconnect CPUs (Latest Model K7 lines, PIII, and P4 (excluding the willamette line which uses Aluminum interconnects) lines). Silicon migration is only a concern where Aluminum based CPUs are used. Voltages have a bearing on damage with regard to P4s, but that is more to the delicate nature of the gates, then the process actually occuring. -----
Yeah I'm on the energy source, the cosmic force, of Prodigy, tipping astrology, my intellects devour, with diesel power.
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abz0ract
3/12/02 7:54:47 PM
Guru
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Bravo: your point has been noted, thanks for that. Particularly interested in the Silicon migration myself.
So you would suggest that people posting an overclock, and what temperature their particular cpu becomes "unstable" will be of no benefit?
I only included this, as people often post questions along the lines of “my cpu is at x degC, is that too hot to overclock?”
...this bump is for 'Janjuc' who has posted a temperature related question, and might be able to find relevant information at one of those URL's ...if unsatisfied with any answer posted in the thread.
-----
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Bravo
3/12/02 10:05:44 PM
Primarch
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hmmm....difficult question. Obviously several factors like heatsink design, ambient air temperatures, fan design (conventional vs. TMD), and thermal interface material (thermal tape, thermal compound) will make or break a processor. I dont believe in discussing overclocks to the exclusion of temperatures, but i make the case of why worry about it if it gives you no problems? -----
Yeah I'm on the energy source, the cosmic force, of Prodigy, tipping astrology, my intellects devour, with diesel power.
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gumbot
4/12/02 2:16:37 AM
Champion
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Well done dude. This will probably stop 3/4 of the posts in tech section :P -----
P4 2.4B @ 3.006GHz 167fsb, Asus P4PE ddr333, 256Mb Kingmax DDR400MHz @ 418MHz, 64Mb Leadtek Geforce4 Ti4200 MyViVO 600/315, 60Gb Viper, 80Gb Barra, Soundblaster Live!, 32x12x48 CyberDrive, 16x DVD, 17" Viewsonic, Volcano 7+, 14045 3DMarks so far:P
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vvega
4/12/02 8:09:28 AM
Primarch
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bravo please post some techincal data to support your claims with silicon migration
i belive this info to be incorect
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Madness and Genius are separated only by varing degrees of success!
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deathspice
5/12/02 9:40:06 AM
Primarch
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nice post dude, another triumph!
it's good that you do this kinda thing, kicks off the conversation as it were, good stuff -----
Oh I'm sorry, did I break your concentration? Please continue...
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TwiZTid_CoZa
5/12/02 11:02:40 AM
Banned
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Yay, 95 core death temperature. /me winds his cpu to 4.5ghz. BOOOM wtf my cpu only hit 89, ABZORACT YOU LIE. nah i am being a shithead great post now we can only ahve one post for these constatn thermal questions that pop up from TIME TO TIME :d -----
g0t g00n!!!
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