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Need some opinions on my water cooled CPU setup
mark84 
26/8/08 10:43:14 PM
Hero
Guru


I have a feeling my CPU is running a bit hotter than what it should. Of course I had something to do with it in OCing it into submission like a good atomican does :}, but now I'm trying to get a decent 24/7 OC happening and it's running rather hot I think, or is it?

Here's the details:
CPU is a QX9650, nothing else in the water loop. I'm aiming for a 3.7GHz 24/7 OC. To do this I need 1.4125 vcore.

Anyway idle it's currently sitting on 27C - 37C (lowest - highest core temp), and under load it kicks up to 59C - 69C with multi instance of Prime95 running. That's with an ambient of 22C and case temp about 25-26C.

Is that to high? I think I read somewhere these are only rated for 65C or something.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sspec=slan3


So I'm thinking I might need to upgrade my water cooling setup.

Currently I have:
- Swiftech Storm (G4) CPU block
- Swiftech MCP655 pump
- Black Ice GT Stealth 240 radiator
All using 1/2" ID tubes

So my question is can I improve on this significantly (like 10-15C+)?

I only know the basics of water cooling so am open to suggestions.

Been reading around a bit and the Storm appears to limit water flow a bit. Would getting something like the new GTZ or the FuZion v2 blocks prove better?
Nice comparison of the storm against the FuZion v1 and GTX blocks:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/1033-cpu-water-block-round-up-apoge

Also I was looking at something like this
http://www.gammods.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=6
to replace the radiator. Don't really want to go 3x 120mm if I can get away with it. Can mount a 2x 120mm rad on the rear of my case nicely.

Also read about "bowing" the block from Bolter01's GTX thread. Worth looking into that?

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

AtomicMPC Firefox extension
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TheFrunj 
26/8/08 10:48:52 PM
God

Nothing else is in the loop, like GPUs?

That is a bloody high temp for a watercooled (or even aircooled) QX9650. Especially at only 3.7GHz.

I don't know all that much about it, but I'd probably say that it is the CPU block.

What fans are you using on the rad?

*edit*
Just for reference, I was able to get a QX9650 up to 4.5GHz with 1.4V or so on a TRUE easily, and it was about 59 degrees load.


Edited by TheFrunj: 26/8/2008 10:49:51 PM

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mark84 
26/8/08 11:09:12 PM
Hero
Guru


Wow, something really seems wrong then.

Just CPU in the loop. Actually remounted it yesterday thinking I maybe put to much Arctic Silver on it, but it didn't make any difference.

Fans aren't anything special. Antec Tri cool things that came with the case.

EDIT: Just thinking do I need a back plate paired with the block? Block didn't come with one, so not sure.

Possible the CPUs heat spreader is very concave or something causing bad contact?

The storm doesn't need to be mounted a particular direction or something? Vertical vs horizontal.

Stupid questions but I'm not sure what's going wrong.


Edited by mark84: 26/8/2008 11:16:12 PM

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

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Midnight_light 
27/8/08 12:20:19 PM
Master
I'd go out and grab some really good fan to try and reduce those temps otherwise its time for a new cpu block, the FuZion v2 with the quad insert would go well.
If you really want to go for it lap the cpus IHS and mate it with the v2.

-----
AMD 5200+
4GB 800MHz
Gainward 9600GT Golden Sample
2 x 320GB Sata
2 x Pioneer 212D
Corsair HX-520
Antec 900 modded

Dasa 
27/8/08 1:59:22 PM
Hero
Titan


with a storm g5 eheim 1250 camry heatercore and a gpu block in the loop
q9450
26-30c idle ~52-56c peak after 8 hours prime at 3.9ghz 1.525v bios 1.44v cpu-z
another screenshot has
26-29c idle 47-50c after 30 min prime 3760mhz 1.4375v bios 1.36v cpu-z
room temp would be ~15c

have you opened up the storm to make sure none of the tiny jets are blocked? as your idle temps seem about right
how warm is the rad getting? i dont know about yours but mine is rather dusty atm so my load temps could be better


just rechecked temps
q9450 3.6ghz 450fsb 1.4025v bios 1.328v cpu-z
25-28c idle
45-46c prime 1 hour
room temp 14.5c
water rad in ~21c out ~20c
so my flow rate isnt great not surprising really the old pump only has 2m head

so with better airflow or a larger rad water temp could be ~3c above ambient
i guess a more powerful pump and a waterblock better suited to a quad core with ihs could probably drop temps about another 7c


im using realtemp TJ is 95


Edited by Dasa: 27/8/2008 03:14:21 PM

-----
Storm G5 e6600@3.4 1.47v 2x1g 8800gt 1g 1.35v 850c 2100m pcp&c 510w CM Stacker Dell 24" 2405fpw Z-680
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/dasa09/P1080547.jpg

nesquick 
27/8/08 3:13:30 PM
Guru

maybe try lapping the block first and make sure you didn't use to much coolant.

-----
e8600@4.5ghz 1.39v|GIGABYTE X48DS4|BALLISTIX TRACERS 4GB+PATRIOT PC9200 1GB|HD4870 790/4400/HD4850 CROSSFIREX|640GB WD HD|CORSAIR HX520|ANTEC TX1050B CASE|TRUE|

mark84 
27/8/08 6:44:49 PM
Hero
Guru


Thanks for the info Dasa.

Cleaned the rad when I rebuilt the system about a month ago.

FYI those temps I was quoting were from Speedfan. Just ran another test with Prime95 for 50 mins, same specs as before:

Temps taken with an IR thermometer, except for CPU obviously.
Ambient 20.5C
Max speedfan temps = 58-66C
Max Realtemp temps = 54-62C
Rad temp = 31.6C
water tube rad in = 29.8C
water tube rad out = 28.8C

Realtemp better than speedfan? Why are they different readings? Thought they'd just read what ever the CPU tells it.

I'll have a look at opening the block up and checking the jets for blockages. Will do it on the weekend.

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

AtomicMPC Firefox extension
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The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

Dasa 
27/8/08 6:56:58 PM
Hero
Titan


if the rad is 10c above room temp there is a fair bit of your problem you must be using some fairly weak fans

reading cpu temps isnt all that easy and im afraid i havent bothered really looking into it but there is a few inconsistencies


Edited by Dasa: 27/8/2008 7:00:12 PM

-----
Storm G5 e6600@3.4 1.47v 2x1g 8800gt 1g 1.35v 850c 2100m pcp&c 510w CM Stacker Dell 24" 2405fpw Z-680
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/dasa09/P1080547.jpg

nesquick 
27/8/08 7:47:19 PM
Guru

i tend to use realtemp and core temp and use the average of both readings.

-----
e8600@4.5ghz 1.39v|GIGABYTE X48DS4|BALLISTIX TRACERS 4GB+PATRIOT PC9200 1GB|HD4870 790/4400/HD4850 CROSSFIREX|640GB WD HD|CORSAIR HX520|ANTEC TX1050B CASE|TRUE|

mark84 
27/8/08 8:53:28 PM
Hero
Guru


Any suggestions on fans?

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

AtomicMPC Firefox extension
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The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
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Dasa 
27/8/08 9:14:28 PM
Hero
Titan


depends how much noise you can handle
if you want to keep it fairly quiet i would probably go for scythe s-flex 1600rpm which is what im using at the moment just two of them wont get great temps though currently i stick two 1700rpm panaflow 120x38mm fans on the other side of the rad in summer
or maybe the 120x38mm 2000rpm scythe and slow it down to ~7-9v
otherwise you are looking at a larger rad like i will be before i hook up the 4870x2...

what fans are you running anyway?

-----
Storm G5 e6600@3.4 1.47v 2x1g 8800gt 1g 1.35v 850c 2100m pcp&c 510w CM Stacker Dell 24" 2405fpw Z-680
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/dasa09/P1080547.jpg

mark84 
27/8/08 9:49:20 PM
Hero
Guru


Just the case fans that came with the case, Antec Twelve Hundred. Tri-cool or something. Something like this I think
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_510&products_id=4995

The fans are in their normal position in the case, then I have two 120mm shrouds on the back of the case paired with the fans, then the rad is then mounted on the shrouds.

With fans, how does static pressure affect things vs CFM?

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

AtomicMPC Firefox extension
http://tinyurl.com/2qabr7

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

Dasa 
27/8/08 10:15:36 PM
Hero
Titan


cfm is the max airflow they can achieve in open air
the higher the static pressure the close they can keep to that rating when moving air threw a case or harder still tightly packed fins but it will still be well below there cfm ratting

those fans can move a bit of air on high i was half expecting you to have some 1200rpm fans or something at best
if your drawing the air from your case threw the rad and you have a lot of drives and a gpu dumping heat into the case could be putting up the temp a bit
its also possible my cheap old heatercore works a bit better than i expected in comparison to your rad

-----
Storm G5 e6600@3.4 1.47v 2x1g 8800gt 1g 1.35v 850c 2100m pcp&c 510w CM Stacker Dell 24" 2405fpw Z-680
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/dasa09/P1080547.jpg

Bolter01 
28/8/08 5:26:20 PM
Initiate

The "bowing" did work to some degree. The new Swiftech GTX blocks apparently shipped with a larger O-ring. I couldn't find one that fitted perfectly so I just tightened the block up and achieved a slight "bow" (more central contact).
As this is my first loop I cant say if it made a difference,

Just a point of interest, with the 2x 4870's in the loop they have come down 20-25c but that heat is now shared with the CPU.
Coolant temps out of the rad @idle are 20 degrees above ambient and the GPU's and CPU are all 5-7 above that again.

And that's with a ThermoChill 120.3 and UltraKaze 2000's (their fairly noisy)
Those 4870's are real "Cookers"

-----
Q6600 | GAX48 DQ6 | Dominator 8500-4096Mb | 2x 4870 Crossfire | ToughPower 1000W | Vista 64 | Swiftech GTX, Koolance VID-480's, ThermoChill 120.3 |

Dasa 
28/8/08 6:50:52 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by Bolter01
Just a point of interest, with the 2x 4870's in the loop they have come down 20-25c but that heat is now shared with the CPU.
Coolant temps out of the rad @idle are 20 degrees above ambient and the GPU's and CPU are all 5-7 above that again.

And that's with a ThermoChill 120.3 and UltraKaze 2000's (their fairly noisy)
Those 4870's are real "Cookers"



bugger me thats dam near unbelievable have we reached a point where we need two triple rads to keep water temps low :S

-----
Storm G5 e6600@3.4 1.47v 2x1g 8800gt 1g 1.35v 850c 2100m pcp&c 510w CM Stacker Dell 24" 2405fpw Z-680
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/dasa09/P1080547.jpg

mark84 
28/8/08 7:45:41 PM
Hero
Guru


Nice explanation Dasa, thanks.
I'll look into some better fans and maybe a bigger radiator.
Might get the new GTZ water block too. G4's apparently aren't so good with multi dice CPUs.


I would've thought Bolter01's setup was respectable though, after all he is cooling 5 processors lol

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

AtomicMPC Firefox extension
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The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

Bolter01 
28/8/08 11:56:51 PM
Initiate

Stand Down!
I have in fact been a complete dick!
This is my 2nd night of having it all together and after panicking a bit about the temps....
I screwed off the little drain plug on the top of the rad (its about 2mm), couldn't see any coolant... poked around with a little "stick", even got down core for 5cm and it came out dry.
So yep even though I had tilted it every which way as I was filling there remained a 250ml air pocket.
Yaa!
Ambient 17c
Hottest Core 22c (idle)
GPU's 25c "

DESTROYER OF HEAT ::: it could cool a small sun!

-----
Q6600 | GAX48 DQ6 | Dominator 8500-4096Mb | 2x 4870 Crossfire | ToughPower 1000W | Vista 64 | Swiftech GTX & MCP655, Koolance VID-487's, ThermoChill 120.3-UltraKaze 2000's |

mark84 
29/8/08 12:26:41 AM
Hero
Guru


woah, nice!

hopefully when my new parts arrive and I redo my setup I'll have something comparable.

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

AtomicMPC Firefox extension
http://tinyurl.com/2qabr7

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

Dasa 
29/8/08 11:15:55 AM
Hero
Titan


ah good to hear Bolter01 5c above ambient is far more respectable between 3-7c above ambient is about right depending on the setup

mark84 i will be very interested to see how that new block and rad\fans goes for you

-----
Storm G5 e6600@3.4 1.47v 2x1g 8800gt 1g 1.35v 850c 2100m pcp&c 510w CM Stacker Dell 24" 2405fpw Z-680
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/dasa09/P1080547.jpg

mark84 
29/8/08 12:56:15 PM
Hero
Guru


I'll post results when I redo my setup.

I'm getting similar parts to Bolter01, ThermoChill 120.2 rad with UltraKaze 2000 fans. I've also got some rad boxes so I'll look at mounting the rad so the air doesn't all come from inside the case.

If all that fails I'll give up water cooling and buy a TRUE, lol.

-----
QX9650 | HD4870 | 2x WD3000GLFS RAID0 | Swiftech Storm | 2407WFP |

AtomicMPC Firefox extension
http://tinyurl.com/2qabr7

The Truth About Graphics Power Requirements V2
http://tinyurl.com/cj3pw

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