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400D vs. 40D
smenkhare 
19/7/08 9:47:56 AM
Guru

I was looking to upgrade my K100D to a canon and looking at the side by side and the 40D really doesn't look that much better than the 400D, all i could see looked like really minor differences. Would i be better off to save for the 5D or is there something i've missed here?

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Athiril 
19/7/08 10:43:11 AM
Titan

For starters, my 30D is better than a 450D, at least imo.

The scroll/jog wheel is an amazing ergonomic feature you'd not get on the 400D (scroll wheel is on the 5D too).

They do actually have different sensors afaik (same as 30D vs 350D).

In any case, I'd have wished I got the 5D instead of the 30D...

Ive used a 400D, feels like a toy in comparison to mine, and you gotta dig through menus on the lcd to change stuff, on the xxD and xD series it's all on the camera body easily accessible (like iso)

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Athiril 
19/7/08 10:43:19 AM
Titan

You -are- better off with a 5D... but..

You got to take price of a good lens into equation too.

Whats your main area of interest?

Portraits (whether face or ful body or nude etc), Landscapes/Cityscapes/Wide etc, Macro, Wild Life, Sports?

Portraits, Landscapes/Wide, Macro, Wild Life -> 5D
Sports -> 40D
General -> 400D

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

smenkhare 
19/7/08 11:11:53 AM
Guru

Quote by Athiril
You -are- better off with a 5D... but..

You got to take price of a good lens into equation too.

Whats your main area of interest?

Portraits (whether face or ful body or nude etc), Landscapes/Cityscapes/Wide etc, Macro, Wild Life, Sports?

Portraits, Landscapes/Wide, Macro, Wild Life -> 5D
Sports -> 40D
General -> 400D



land/sea scapes, cityscapes, low light, possibly astro

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te amo Brune. Te quiero mucho
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be an aisle at Wal-Mart, Not a government agency!!
Quote by 1shot1kill
You stoled my thread title! :p



Athiril 
19/7/08 12:18:03 PM
Titan

5D, excellent ISO/noise performance.

That being said, my 30D has excellent ISO/noise peformance.

For Astro, you will want a camera with mirror lockup, the 400D does not have mirror lockup.

Mirror lockup works like this - shutter cable, press button, mirror flips up, wait, press button again, shutter opens to take picture, so you dont get vibrations from mirror slap on long-ish exposures.

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

Athiril 
19/7/08 12:19:18 PM
Titan

About mirror-lockup:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/mirror-lock.shtml

Of course, there's the black card technique, add an extra 4 seconds to your exposure to a camera withour MLU, hold the black card in front of the lens, start taking the pic, after 4 secs, remove it.

Also these are the lenses you'll need for all that
http://www.cameraporn.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/canonlenses.jpg


Edited by Athiril: 19/7/2008 12:41:08 PM

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

baarboss 
19/7/08 6:57:07 PM
Apprentice

The 400D does have mirror lockup Athiril, though I'm not arguing that smenkhare should get it:)

Edit spelling



Edited by baarboss: 19/7/2008 6:58:25 PM

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ne()phyte 
19/7/08 7:35:39 PM
Titan

Quote by smenkhare
...looking at the side by side and the 40D really doesn't look that much better than the 400D, all i could see looked like really minor differences...



The biggest difference is body size and ergonomics.

The 40D is a bigger, beefier and more ergonomically friendly camera for bigger hands. While the features are fairly much on par, there are a few differences, such as burst frame rate being higher in the 40D than the 450D, which is only useful if you're planning on using the camera for more sports oriented shooting.


Ultimately, find yourself a store, get one of each with the same lens on it, and have a play with it.

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baarboss 
19/7/08 7:47:38 PM
Apprentice

I was going to pose the question regarding upgrading from a 400d to a 40d as well so your thoughts/comments are much appreciated Athiril.

For me, not a completely wasted upgrade as the 400 would get passed on to my wife. The 40d appeals to me because of continuous shooting speed of up to 6.5fps although I realize the reviews show that the max is around 6fps.

Why do you recommend the 5D for portraits/landscapes etc? Is it because it is a full frame camera and the ISO/noise performance?

In my situation I found the 400D@3fps was not quick enough for fast sports like motocross which is why I am looking to move up. For my interests my wish list is a 40D and a Canon EF 70-200 f2.8L IS USM. I realize the 40D is not the best camera to put behind that lens but would do the job for quite a while and be a saving on the initial purchase cost. The lens would certainly be one to keep and maybe the 5D succesor would be around by the time I can upgrade>

Anyhoo, just my thoughts.

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smenkhare 
19/7/08 8:09:03 PM
Guru

the impression i'm getting here is it would be best to pass on the 40D and just wait until i can afford the 5D. Sound about right?

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te amo Brune. Te quiero mucho
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be an aisle at Wal-Mart, Not a government agency!!
Quote by 1shot1kill
You stoled my thread title! :p



Athiril 
19/7/08 8:42:35 PM
Titan

For those interested in the 5D, it is quite an old camera, and has an ancient Digic II processor, about 3+ years now i believe...

But damn, the ISO 1600 performance shits on anything out there in the market...

My gf's aunt has a 5D... damn its nice...

FF is better for portraits: longer lens for the same field of view = smaller depth of field.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

Mademan 
22/7/08 9:00:36 PM
Disciple
400D does indeed have a craptastic body. the 40D controls much better, and is better built with its metal chassis and several weather seals (not quite a d200/d300 though). The 40D also stores 14bits per colour channel (for raw files), as opposed to 12bit files from the 30D or 400D. But whether you can actually see this difference is another thing.

I would just stick with what you have for the time being, as far as A4 prints or web jpgs are concerned, 6mp does just fine, and the cameras you're looking at just won't give you an enormous leap in image quality. Have you considered the K20D?

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The Tick 
22/7/08 10:15:49 PM
Hero
Titan


Price and existing lenses moved me to the 40D (upgrade from 350D).

There are a variety of differences between the 40D and the 400D. The 450D might also be a contender if you wanted something smaller but as most have stated, the 40D is a better camera. There are blow by blow comparisons out there.

FF is the way to go if you can afford it of course. Besides the older processor the 5D is still a nice camera and is at a good price. The lenses you purchase for it would generally be keepers as you upgrade the body over time.

Of course there is nothing stopping you from going the cheaper 40D with FF lenses. There is a trade off in the wide angle lenses and ultra wides in regards to crop and distortion as opposed the the EFS lenses but if your intention is to trade up in body, the lenses are what will kill you in the upgrade.

I would have to leave it to Athril's experience with the depth of field and image quality at high iso, although I have found the 40D to do a pretty good job at both.

Here is an example of the 40D at ISO 1600. There are alot of things wrong with this photo as I had only just bought the camera and was screwing with it. This was the jpg from the camera with no touch ups, through a zoom lens, no flash and I didn't have a tripod hence some blur.

http://gallery.me.com/uberdruid#100039/IMG_0280&bgcolor=black

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Athiril 
22/7/08 10:20:52 PM
Titan

The Tick: I have the Sigma 12-24mm EX DG, which is FF ;)

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

The Tick 
23/7/08 9:26:37 AM
Hero
Titan


Sorry Athril, what body are you using again?

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Athiril 
23/7/08 11:40:14 AM
Titan

30D, its very wide on my 30D, I also use this lens on my EOS 500N, which is a film SLR.

Also Im not that experienced as you give credit for, but high ISO (800, 1600) works well on my 30D, DoF is the same for the same f-stop over different ISO ratings.

I use ImageNomic's Noiseware Professional for high ISO noise reduction, usually combined with masking on a new layer with the noisy image underneath, and/or opacity.

High ISO shots are great for newspaper sports prints, you cant tell the diff in a newspaper colour print.

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

The Tick 
23/7/08 12:34:03 PM
Hero
Titan


Ah cool.

Every time I seem to investigate the EFS style lenses vs FF lenses there are always mixed results.

With FF lenses from Canon for example at the wide or ultra wide settings on a cropped frame camera, review sites tend to rate these as having distortion and whatnot at these settings which improves as you zoom in.

Prime lenses such as macros seem to not have these problems from what I have seen or maybe that was just what came back when I was doing homework before purchasing my Macro.

Of course it's a mixed bag. I am not doubting that the Sigma lens you have works quite well on a cropped sensor and having a look at some review sites they back that up too.

Maybe it's a conspiracy from Canon :)

Quote by Athiril
Also Im not that experienced as you give credit for



The results of your work generally would suggest otherwise :)

Ok, maybe I should say that your knowledge generally extends further than mine.


Edited by The Tick: 23/7/2008 12:51:15 PM

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Quote by plebsmacker
I don't care who makes what, I just want more toys.



Athiril 
23/7/08 3:24:09 PM
Titan

Even on full frame @ 12mm the sigma has what you can consider as "no" distortion, it's actually slightly more distortion at the long end according to all tests ive seen.

When you look through the view finder, all straight lines remain straight, people still say the 12mm image is distorted, but this is perspective effect and if the vanishing point down the center of the lens of such an extremely wide fov lens is not on the horizon or natural vanishing point, of course its going to look somewhat weird/alien.

I always stick with FF lenses, I research and find the one I want, or buy an old film prime on the cheap (50mm f/1.4 for $50, which is sharper than the Canon 50mm EF f/1.8 for example), then i can shoot on my EOS film and 30D and will be able to use them on my future 5D (or 5D Mk II).

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

The Tick 
23/7/08 3:33:50 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by Athiril
I research and find the one I want, or buy an old film prime on the cheap (50mm f/1.4 for $50, which is sharper than the Canon 50mm EF f/1.8 for example), then i can shoot on my EOS film and 30D and will be able to use them on my future 5D (or 5D Mk II).



Which is always the way to go.

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Quote by plebsmacker
I don't care who makes what, I just want more toys.



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