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Evils of frames
moofactory 
4/7/08 1:14:35 PM
Titan

yeah blind people hate you for using frames.
They cant see your site if you use frames.

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http://www.spore.com/sporepedia#qry=usr-moofactory

johnsee 
6/7/08 8:39:53 AM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


Quote by SquallStrife
If you really cared about **all** your users, your HTML would look like this:

<html>
<head>
<title>My prices</title>
<body>
<h1>This is a heading</h1>
<p>This is some text</p>
</body>
</html>

Renders fine in any browser, even lynx.



Doctypes and things help :P

My websites aren't far off that these days. I style exclusively with CSS, and when CSS is disabled, that more or less how they render.

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Quote by Mac Dude
I love the smell of napalm in the Green Room.
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spielentwickler 
7/7/08 2:12:57 AM
Guru

Here's my answer

http://www.opendoors-youthservice.org/

This site is a static site with only a few pages, that uses CSS instead of frames to get a similar effect.

It did need some IE6 hacks, but all detection is done on the server end and I just send the hacks to IE6 (without the correct css, which is sent to everything else).

There's some slight rendering differences across browsers, but ultimately it works.

-----
http://www.last.fm/user/spielentwickler/
<= knight of the 6fAOEC =>

SquallStrife 
7/7/08 3:45:22 PM
Titan

Quote by johnsee
Quote by SquallStrife
If you really cared about **all** your users, your HTML would look like this:

<html>
<head>
<title>My prices</title>
<body>
<h1>This is a heading</h1>
<p>This is some text</p>
</body>
</html>

Renders fine in any browser, even lynx.



Doctypes and things help :P

My websites aren't far off that these days. I style exclusively with CSS, and when CSS is disabled, that more or less how they render.



It's interesting how, like most facets of IT, we've gone full circle here, isn't it?

HTML started out for marking up text, not really formatting it in terms of font, colour, etc.

Then we went through the frames and tables phase, before CSS really matured, and HTML essentially became a document formatting language, like Postscript.

Now we can more or less completely separate visual formatting from text content, and we're back to HTML being for marking up text, with CSS being the formatting language.

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Q6600 @ 3.6GHz | 8800GTS | XP x64 | Vista HP x64 | OSX 10.5.2

spielentwickler 
17/7/08 10:43:39 AM
Guru

That's pretty much how technologies develop SquallStrife. You try one thing, if it doesn't work, you re-engineer it.

Anyway, the biggest problem with frames is that they break expected browser behaviour. If I bookmark a page, loading that bookmark should bring back the same page.

On a small site, that would probably be able to be figured out by any half intelligent user, but there's really not that many of them...

Anyway, it's very easy to use fixed divs in css to get a similar effect. If you don't want any crappy browsers reloading the whole page again, the other thing you can do is use named anchors and javascript to load up each new "page" of content when a link is clicked. All the content would be on one page, but you still have external links to each "page".

If you bring ajax into the mix, you can have just the "frame" (in quotes for not real frame) load the content dynamically when the link is clicked.

There's really no reason to use frames anymore.

-----
http://www.last.fm/user/spielentwickler/
<= knight of the 6fAOEC =>

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