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iPhone Criticisms
The Tick 
2/9/08 4:54:01 PM
Hero
Titan


thesorehead: I hope your trying to introduce some humour as that would suck as an argument.

Girvo, your one of the few people I know who knocks the iPhone for the RIGHT reasons.

<general rant>

Maybe it's years of having to produce a business case before having it approved. Weighing the pros and cons of technology for business purposes is ingrained so it irks me when someone falls into an extreme camp without "real" justification.

As stated, the iPhone has it's merits but it is not a perfect device. Cost, features, battery are one thing to consider. On a different level which seem to reside on principles primarily, Apple as a company and how they deliver it to market, their regulations on allowing apps and functionality can also be a pro or a con depending on where your coming from.

To be honest, if the battery were better, memory was increased, the few niggles around the limitations with bluetooth and inviting attendees were addressed and they allowed tethering (and Telstra offered a better data plan) it might be close to perfect for me.

People who hate the device just to be a h8er (I am going to use that term from now on) shit me. People who love the product without putting in any real geniune reason as to why also shit me. People who weigh the pros and cons and come to their own decision for the right reasons are all ok in my book and I am happy to point out a flaw in their logic if I see one.

-----
Quote by plebsmacker
I don't care who makes what, I just want more toys.



TheSecret 
2/9/08 6:25:11 PM
Overlord
TheTick,

Thankyou for your opinion, it did give me a bit of understanding, however given all the people who have iPhones, your singular reply is not faith inspiring.

Just to note, I did not say it fails as a phone, but as a communications device, which is true compared to other phones. The rest of your points, iTunes and exchange etc, they honestly don't have any opinion over equivalent smartphones, and I would say that as a technical point more than an opinion.

-----
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is
competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

hill60606 
2/9/08 6:48:48 PM
Immortal

Quote by TheSecret

Just to note, I did not say it fails as a phone, but as a communications device,



I have posted in this thread from an iPhone - communicating!

I have emailed people and received replies from an iPhone - communicating!

I have dialed numbers and called phones from an iPhone and had phones call me - communicating!

I have sent and received SMS from an iPhone - communicating!

I have shared the sound of the music from an iPhone - communicating!

I have shown people photo's on the screen of an iPhone - communicating!

I have played two player games on an iPhone - communicating!

I am sorry perhaps it is you who has failed to grasp the meaning of communication.




Edited by hill60606: 2/9/2008 6:49:54 PM

-----
A decade of John Howard has left a country of timidity, fear and shame


His power resided in his ability to speak directly and powerfully to the negativity at the core of the Australian soul.

thesorehead 
2/9/08 8:16:52 PM
Guru

Quote by The Tick
thesorehead: I hope your trying to introduce some humour as that would suck as an argument.
...



... because Maddox has been the source of well-reasoned arguments for some time now ... not to mention the date on that particular article, ie NOT iPhone 3G. Give me an excuse to expose more people to the author of the Alphabet of Manliness, I'll take it! ^_^

I actually went looking for an E70 but couldn't easily get my hands on one. I was going to go the E71, but circumstances left me with the N95 which is fine.

Further I still fail to see how the reiteration of the lack of MMS, (relatively) crappy camera and zero video recording mode (c'mon, that's been practically a standard feature for what, four years now??) fails to make the grade as a "RIGHT" reason to knock the iPhone.

To those saying that the iPhone doesn't like drops, Google up the videos showing it being dropped, scratched with keys and otherwise abused whilst coming out unharmed. The thing is solid, and I wouldn't want to put the N95 through that. Still no excuse not to have those features, which I require for effective communication.

I can't take my sisters shopping with me everywhere, so when it comes to picking out a pair of shoes or shirts, when I'm asked to get something specific that I have no idea about, when I catch something particularly amusing - MMS is an essential communication method that for no logical reason has been left out of a modern-day high-end smartphone. WTF.

Also, I had the opportunity to watch a very cool YouTube video on that same mate's iPhone ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoQb8vb4blA ) - and truth be told it sounded like arse. Watching the same video through my N95 the screen was obviously smaller, but the sound was louder and much clearer.

Though I have to say that the USB connection, whilst OK for getting pictures off the N95, is inexplicably snail-paced when putting music on. Good thing I have my Creative for music, but that's 8GB of space that's sitting there. Seems like a waste, but I suppose I can always use it capturing 640*480 video clips and then showing them on any TV with a composite AV input...

-----
"Be Excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted
- - - Don't feed the Trolls!! - - -
"Consoles are toys. $250 is the most I will pay for a toy." - thesorehead

Linux_Inside V2 
2/9/08 8:20:19 PM
Immortal

Quote by thesorehead
Also, I had the opportunity to watch a very cool YouTube video on that same mate's iPhone ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoQb8vb4blA ) - and truth be told it sounded like arse. Watching the same video through my N95 the screen was obviously smaller, but the sound was louder and much clearer.



Over 3G or Wifi?

Over 3G a much lower quality version of the video's are served by the YT servers to save bandwidth, when you do it over WIFI the quality is great :D

-----

thesorehead 
2/9/08 9:25:08 PM
Guru

3G, there was no wifi at the time.

The N95 still sounds better over 3G than the iPhone. I'm talking external speaker here BTW, not headphone - I'm sure they'd both sound similar through 'phones.

-----
"Be Excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted
- - - Don't feed the Trolls!! - - -
"Consoles are toys. $250 is the most I will pay for a toy." - thesorehead

TheSecret 
2/9/08 9:30:37 PM
Overlord
Quote by hill60606
Quote by TheSecret

Just to note, I did not say it fails as a phone, but as a communications device,



I have posted in this thread from an iPhone - communicating!

I have emailed people and received replies from an iPhone - communicating!

I have dialed numbers and called phones from an iPhone and had phones call me - communicating!

I have sent and received SMS from an iPhone - communicating!

I have shared the sound of the music from an iPhone - communicating!

I have shown people photo's on the screen of an iPhone - communicating!

I have played two player games on an iPhone - communicating!

I am sorry perhaps it is you who has failed to grasp the meaning of communication.




Edited by hill60606: 2/9/2008 6:49:54 PM



Just because it can do everything you listed, does not absolve it of not being able to do what it can not, simply because you do not need it. Also, showing people pictures and playing people music is stretching the meaning of communication in the context I used.

-----
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is
competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Girvo 
2/9/08 10:22:12 PM
Immortal

The Tick is one of the only people [bar a few exceptions on here as well :)] that like the iPhone for the right reasons.

:)


As he says, there is no perfect device for everyone.

I like a phone where I can fiddle. I mean, REALLY fiddle. Registry hacking, UI development, and just general technological tomfoolery :P




One thing I like about the iPhone? It means that we've had to pick up our game as developers, and make *nice* software :)

http://www.touch-innovation.com/ is a site I'm now admin at. Check out the plethora of apps that have been developed in response to the iPhone's delicious UI.

That, I thank you for :P

-----
Groovy!

The_Psychonaut 
2/9/08 10:26:04 PM
Champion

I've been using mine now for about 2 weeks, and while there are a few annoying bugs, I honestly think people such as the OP could not have spent any time using the device given the superficial nature of their criticisms (it fails as a communication device be only because it can't do MMS? lol...). Backlash from apples smug marketing campain no doubt, but it still surprises me that there are people out there who would judge a products purely by its brand name/the lack of a single minor feature.

I do have some criticisms however:

1) The finish. Glossy black was a terrible, terrible idea. It picks up grime and fingerprints like nothing else, and I'm not so keen on bulking up the phone with a case (though I probably will sometime soon).

2) No simple way of exchanging contact details. There are work arounds, but in my opinion this is a common requirement of business users that should have been addressed.

3) Battery life and battery life indicating. Because of it's features, I find myself using this phone far more than my previous phone (N95), but this creates a problem with the battery running flat before the end of the day. Not a lot you can do about it if you want to keep the device slim, but it's still an issue that users will have to work around. I've also flu d the battery metre to be sup-par, with the discharge being shown as erratic and non-linear.

4) No data tethering. This is the only this miss about my N95, hopefully a legitimate app will be released for the Australian store.

5) Random crashes. Something I'm sure will be fixed eventually, but it currently happens often enough for it to be annoying.

Now for the things that I think makes it awesome:

1) The browser. Mobile Internet usage is now a pleasure.

2) The screen. Nuff' said.

3) Dedicated silent mode switch. This is a simple but very handy feature for someone like myself.

4) The keyboard. Once you get used to it, the keyboard is a real pleasure to use. Not quite as good as a qwerty, but pretty damn close + you get maximum screen realestate. Wouldn't mind direction keys, and it's be nice if you could use the portrait mode for SMSs.

5) The interface. My N95 had many of the same features, but I never found myself using them because it was too much of a pain. The iPhone interface is simple and very intuitive, and brings all the features of the phone together in a way that is uncomparably superior to any other phone I've used or owned.



Edited by The_Psychonaut: 2/9/2008 10:29:02 PM

-----

hill60606 
2/9/08 10:41:44 PM
Immortal

I wonder why this guy wants to SHOW PEOPLE PICTURES of things before buying them?

You just shot yourself in the foot over the importance of MMS!

-----
A decade of John Howard has left a country of timidity, fear and shame


His power resided in his ability to speak directly and powerfully to the negativity at the core of the Australian soul.

Girvo 
2/9/08 10:42:49 PM
Immortal

Quote by hill60606
I wonder why this guy wants to SHOW PEOPLE PICTURES of things before buying them?

You just shot yourself in the foot over the importance of MMS!



Not quite. Shopping, without my girl. Want to buy her something. MMS photo. Txt back.

*shrugs

-----
Groovy!

TheSecret 
2/9/08 10:43:17 PM
Overlord
The_Psychonaut,

I have spent many days using an iPhone, however it was the first generation. I don't think it fails as a communication device by itself, but in comparison to other communication devices, it fails spectacularly feature wise.

I guess the people who don't like the keyboard is similar to some people not liking the FF3 Awsomebar. Except I love the Awsomebar. I am wondering how many people will actually just justify something because it is Apple, and not because it is actually great.

-----
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is
competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

The Tick 
2/9/08 10:46:43 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by thesorehead


... because Maddox has been the source of well-reasoned arguments for some time now ...



Ah - nuff said.

I always took Maddox as a whiny ranter. Veiling half truths with pig headed arrogant bashing does not make a well-reasoned argument.

I'm glad you like your phone. I am sure you researched it well, tested it out at length, carefully selected a plan suitable to what you knew it could do based on careful research and it has been a match made in heaven.


-----
Quote by plebsmacker
I don't care who makes what, I just want more toys.



The Tick 
2/9/08 10:51:53 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
I am wondering how many people will actually just justify something because it is Apple, and not because it is actually great.



None that I have found. Most people I meet have nfi either way.

I think the danger though is "assuming" someone is defending something purely for the brand. That can make a person look like a dick (not saying you are - just a general observation relating to the world at large).

-----
Quote by plebsmacker
I don't care who makes what, I just want more toys.



The_Psychonaut 
2/9/08 11:04:34 PM
Champion

Quote by TheSecret
I don't think it fails as a communication device by itself, but in comparison to other communication devices, it fails spectacularly feature wise.



Is there something besides MMS that it doesn't have? To call the lack of MMS a spectacular failure when compared to other phones (most of which can't do instant messaging or push email) seems like a bit of an exageration.

-----

thesorehead 
2/9/08 11:08:02 PM
Guru

Quote by Girvo
Quote by hill60606
I wonder why this guy wants to SHOW PEOPLE PICTURES of things before buying them?

You just shot yourself in the foot over the importance of MMS!



Not quite. Shopping, without my girl. Want to buy her something. MMS photo. Txt back.

*shrugs



+1

WTF are you talking about hill60606? You've never been asked to pick something up whilst you were out?

There have been occasions where I have been asked to pick up CDs with ambiguous names and items of food I'd never heard of; also other times when my sisters can remember the general area of the store where they reserved their *insert fashion item here*, and more or less what it looked like, but not the name. Easier to send a pic or video when I get there to make sure the trip is not wasted.

Moreover, I trust their fashion sense more than my own and MMS means I can ask all of their opinions at once without having to get them to come shopping with me.

It's also a great way of just expressing an emotion, showing where you will be waiting at a certain time, communicating some funny sight or sound, or just sending a message that's greater than 160 characters long.

You might say "it's just as easy to send it in an e-mail" - even if that were true, the recipients would all have to have the ability to receive it, and with multiple phone models and networks amongst my family and friends, there's only one way to more or less guarantee they'll get the message: MMS.

I won't even start on the usefulness of voice recording.

More importantly - the iPhone is supposed to be this big, wonderful thing. It has so many cool features, from a GPS that's actually good, a slick UI, awesome screen, the ability to play SNES ROMs to corporate e-mail connection business that I don't fully understand. Why is it that such a high-end device lacks basic features that have been standard for all but the cheapest handsets for literally years ?? I just don't understand.

No phone is perfect - the N95 8GB doesn't feel tough, has a crappy GPS module, woeful USB transfer speeds, LED flash, forgettable media player and poor battery life. But my phones are tools, not toys and I need them to do what I've come to rely on my phones to do: calls, SMS, MMS, voice notes, basic calendar, internet and quick photos/videos. None of those features requires an N95 - many lesser phones would do a similar job.

-----
"Be Excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted
- - - Don't feed the Trolls!! - - -
"Consoles are toys. $250 is the most I will pay for a toy." - thesorehead

thesorehead 
2/9/08 11:09:23 PM
Guru

Quote by The Tick
Quote by thesorehead


... because Maddox has been the source of well-reasoned arguments for some time now ...



Ah - nuff said.

I always took Maddox as a whiny ranter. Veiling half truths with pig headed arrogant bashing does not make a well-reasoned argument.

I'm glad you like your phone. I am sure you researched it well, tested it out at length, carefully selected a plan suitable to what you knew it could do based on careful research and it has been a match made in heaven.





Someone needs to recalibrate their sarcasm detector. How many ^_^s do I need to insert to let you know I'm smiling as I type and that I'm not serious?

Jeez.



EDIT: the guys at the Voda store had an N95 8GB charged up and ready to demonstrate when I went in. I was pleasantly surprised with the keypad and it ticked all the other boxes I had in my head. I had walked in looking for an E71, with an N95 as a secondary/tertiary option.

Circumstances were such that a decision had to be made on the day so upon handling and testing out the capabilities of the device (put in my SIM, surfed to at0mic, logged in, jumped on YouTube, logged into my webmail clients, briefly checked out other features) I've no regrets. No match made in heaven, but as has been said nothing's perfect.


Edited by thesorehead: 2/9/2008 11:15:50 PM

-----
"Be Excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted
- - - Don't feed the Trolls!! - - -
"Consoles are toys. $250 is the most I will pay for a toy." - thesorehead

TheSecret 
2/9/08 11:10:54 PM
Overlord
Quote by thesorehead
Quote by Girvo
Quote by hill60606
I wonder why this guy wants to SHOW PEOPLE PICTURES of things before buying them?

You just shot yourself in the foot over the importance of MMS!



Not quite. Shopping, without my girl. Want to buy her something. MMS photo. Txt back.

*shrugs



+1

WTF are you talking about hill60606? You've never been asked to pick something up whilst you were out?

There have been occasions where I have been asked to pick up CDs with ambiguous names and items of food I'd never heard of; also other times when my sisters can remember the general area of the store where they reserved their *insert fashion item here*, and more or less what it looked like, but not the name. Easier to send a pic or video when I get there to make sure the trip is not wasted.

Moreover, I trust their fashion sense more than my own and MMS means I can ask all of their opinions at once without having to get them to come shopping with me.

It's also a great way of just expressing an emotion, showing where you will be waiting at a certain time, communicating some funny sight or sound, or just sending a message that's greater than 160 characters long.

You might say "it's just as easy to send it in an e-mail" - even if that were true, the recipients would all have to have the ability to receive it, and with multiple phone models and networks amongst my family and friends, there's only one way to more or less guarantee they'll get the message: MMS.

I won't even start on the usefulness of voice recording.

More importantly - the iPhone is supposed to be this big, wonderful thing. It has so many cool features, from a GPS that's actually good, a slick UI, awesome screen, the ability to play SNES ROMs to corporate e-mail connection business that I don't fully understand. Why is it that such a high-end device lacks basic features that have been standard for all but the cheapest handsets for literally years ?? I just don't understand.

No phone is perfect - the N95 8GB doesn't feel tough, has a crappy GPS module, woeful USB transfer speeds, LED flash, forgettable media player and poor battery life. But my phones are tools, not toys and I need them to do what I've come to rely on my phones to do: calls, SMS, MMS, voice notes, basic calendar, internet and quick photos/videos. None of those features requires an N95 - many lesser phones would do a similar job.



Perfectly said.

-----
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is
competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

hill60606 
2/9/08 11:58:29 PM
Immortal

The only pictures I take when shopping are one's of price tags used to price match in other stores, I do this by showing a salesperson the picture on the screen of my phone, no phone comes close to the iPhone for doing this.

The other day I pulled up MSY's beautiful site, in Safari and by zooming in on their PDF pricelist was able to get $20 off a wireless router from some guy who said he'd price match.

That's the sort of shopping I do with a phone.

I used MMS a lot when it was first introduced as it was free for a trial period, not many people had MMS capable phone's back then so I mainly sent them to email addresses.

As I've said before MMS isn't something I use if I get a sudden urge to do so I can switch to one of my old phone's and bore people with photo's of shirts.

Tonight I was able to show some visitors from Fiji and Brisbane some of the photo's stored on my iPhone, I synced over 3000 photo's from my PC dating back 8 years, so was able to show them weddings, graduations, birthday's etc and email them one's they wanted.

The host was German so I pulled up some 360 degree panorama's of his hometown in Pangea.

COMMUNICATION!

-----
A decade of John Howard has left a country of timidity, fear and shame


His power resided in his ability to speak directly and powerfully to the negativity at the core of the Australian soul.

TheSecret 
3/9/08 12:02:12 AM
Overlord
Communication that can be done with an iTouch, or a PSP, or a decent portable MP§/Video player, all better suited to the task than something which is meant to be primarily a phone.

And again, showing something someone in person is not the way the word communication is being used in this thread.

Fanbois are good entertainment though..keep it up.

-----
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is
competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

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