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The "SSD watch" thread
iamthemaxx 
9/1/08 11:11:59 AM
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Seeing as though SSD is ramping up in the market I figure a thread on the latest movements would be nice.


Sony confirms 128GB SATA SSD for second half of 2008;
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/samsung-128gb-sata-ssd-now-official/

EDIT - a heap of news links in here;
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=29&t=224


Edited by iamthemaxx: 9/1/2008 11:39:31 AM

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iamthemaxx 
9/1/08 3:28:51 PM
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Riteks 128GB;
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/ritek-joins-the-128gb-ssd-crowd/

And Samsung's as well;
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/samsung-128gb-sata-ssd-now-official/

Some Toshiba;
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2007/12/toshiba_introduces_3_new_ssd_f.html

And some Ridata;
http://feeds.gizmodo.com.au/~r/GizmodoAustralia/~3/212396571/ridata_intros_128gb_sata_ssds_.html

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The Fuzz damn you! 
9/1/08 8:49:33 PM
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Still a very long way to go before it becomes cost effective though.

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confined 
10/1/08 12:52:35 AM
Titan

Great idea, iamthemaxx .

Won't have much to contribute as I don't really keep up on the news but will certainly keep an eye on this thread.

Are there any distributors in Australia with them yet? Having a look through ours and looks like a "no" at the moment.

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iamthemaxx 
10/1/08 10:15:33 AM
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Quote by The Fuzz damn you!
Still a very long way to go before it becomes cost effective though.



But saying that is has come leaps and bounds since it started way back when.
Given the take up by a lot of main manufacturers I think we will start to see very cheap 64GB releases by the last quarter of the year.

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iamthemaxx 
11/1/08 10:33:14 AM
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SanDisk 72GB SATAII, due 2nd quarter of the year;
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/sandisk-announces-72gb-ssd-8gb-cruzer-crossfire/

Some more info;
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=storage&
"BitMicro Networks Inc. today will announce that it is putting the finishing touches on an 832GB version of its E-Disk Altima 2.5-in. Serial ATA flash solid-state drive.

Manufacturers can begin testing the new solid-state disk drive this summer, according to Fremont, Calif.-based Bit Micro. The device is slated to start shipping in volume by late-2008, the company added.

Bit Micro would not disclose pricing plans for the new drive."



I guess not disclosing prices because the market is bound to change by the end of the year.


Edited by iamthemaxx: 11/1/2008 10:47:01 AM

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illdrift 
11/1/08 12:49:41 PM
Disciple

I tried one of the cheap(ish) 32gb transcend ssd drives. Max ~25mb/s write, either 8mb/s or 16mb/s read (25mb/s read for the 8/16gb versions i *think*).

The speeds are bearable, but for some reason it's an utter horror to run an OS from. It apparently doesn't like random read/writes, or just small files. I can read/write files to the disk fine, but an OS on the SSD seems to be a problem.

Vista 64bit took overnight to install, it takes a few seconds to load the task bar, half a minute for windows explorer etc. The resource manager shows the hdd struggling to break 1mb/s for normal use.

I swapped to a normal hard drive and the OS runs fine. I'm yet to test XP.

So unless someone knows a solution, i would advise staying away from those transcend drives. I've read of others having similar problems.

Edit: Just tried Win XP, same problem.


Edited by illdrift: 11/1/2008 3:38:47 PM

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.:Cyb3rGlitch:. 
12/1/08 6:52:39 PM
Guru

I'm definitely getting an SSD for my next PC. My ASUS Eee has converted me, now I find HDDs unbearable. :P

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iamthemaxx 
17/1/08 10:06:56 AM
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A short article here;
http://www.cooltechzone.com/Special_Reports/Special_Reports/2008%3A_The_Future_of_Solid_State_Sto


EMC jumps on the SSD ship;
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/EMC-flashes-enterprise-with-146GB-solid-state-drives/0,


Edited by iamthemaxx: 17/1/2008 12:48:26 PM

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mark84 
17/1/08 7:54:53 PM
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I'm kind of interested in these too. What are their transfer speeds like vs HDDs atm?

The only thing I don't like about them atm is that they're rating their lifetimes in number of writes or something before failure not time. Gives me the impression that under constant use they won't last long.

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.:Cyb3rGlitch:. 
17/1/08 8:11:56 PM
Guru

Quote by mark84
I'm kind of interested in these too. What are their transfer speeds like vs HDDs atm?

The only thing I don't like about them atm is that they're rating their lifetimes in number of writes or something before failure not time. Gives me the impression that under constant use they won't last long.


It's more of a myth. They last longer than HDDs because there are no moving parts.

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tictac2 
18/1/08 9:19:40 PM
Learner
According to the marketing bumf on EMC's site the EMC flash disks are single cell rather than multicell, which both makes them faster and more write tolerant. I saw somewhere that this takes the number of write cycles from 10000 to 100000. At that level I'd far prefer them over spinning platters.

Oh, the comment about the cost rising by 10% for an average system refers to substituting 4 x 73GB flash disks for 4 of the 100 x 146GB FC disks. Replacing 4% of the drives with smaller ones increases the overall cost by 10%. Not cheap. Yet... ;-)

Press release here:
http://www.emc.com/about/news/press/us/2008/011408-1.htm

Performance whitepaper here:
http://www.emc.com/collateral/hardware/white-papers/H4132-emc-symm-dmx4-ultra-perf-tier-0-flash-d


Not sure if it's true, but it seems to me that a flash disk is more likely to slowly wear out too, rather than suddenly die on you. You'd reach a point when you started to get a spike in errors and know it was time to retire it, rather than have it suddenly stop working on you. To me this is a huge advantage. Suddenly raid0 becomes more attractive. Not only that, but the upper limit on the number of spindles in a striped raid set is the time to have all the write heads in position. With no write heads, access times an order of magnitude lower and lower risk of failure, we could see some huge striped raid sets become the norm. 3 or 4 of the bitmicro jobbies in your PC would be pretty sweet. With a transfer rate above 200MB/s and iops in 5 digits per disk, what would 4 of them be like? :-)

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Sparky 
18/1/08 10:10:29 PM
Guru

I have always wondered why the HDD manufactures have not made a pre-raided drive, two low profile 3.5" drive in one case with raid controller embedded on board. But thats another story.

Does anyone know about how many writes these things can do before you get an unrecoverable write error.

With sata hdd's they have worked out that with the number writes before an unrecoverable write error works out to be 12Tb, so if you read the entire contents of a 12Tb drive ie copied the drive to another drive you are guaranteed of one unrecoverable write error and one file will die or possibly something more critical. This is the main thing that some are worried about with rebuilding large raid 5 arrays.

If this is high with these drives then I can see a bright future for SSD raid 0. Don't know why they are not already raided in the package would make for nice speeds, kinda like duel channel ram.

On another note that would have been nice with the i-ram. Four memory sticks each attached to its own sata port and you just raid the lot together by your motherboard chipset, no doubt a stick of ram could saturate the sata bus, so 4 * sata 300 = 1200Mb/s Nice!!!

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iamthemaxx 
29/1/08 1:02:09 PM
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Interesting overview on why SSD is not being picked up so quickly;
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2008/01/solid_state_drives

"The bottom line is that consumers are voting for storage space: The more the better, and the cheaper the better. In other words, solid state has a ways to go before posing any legitimate threat to hard disk drives."


Indeed.

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.:Cyb3rGlitch:. 
29/1/08 1:37:18 PM
Titan

I bearly use 100GB on my HDD, so I'll probably get a SSD drive depending on price. The speed of the MTRON drives is pure condensed awesome. :)

Read/Write speed comparison: http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/21/mtron_ssd_32_gb/page6.html#write_transfer_rates

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tictac2 
29/1/08 11:13:00 PM
Learner
Quote by iamthemaxx
Interesting overview on why SSD is not being picked up so quickly;
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2008/01/solid_state_drives

"The bottom line is that consumers are voting for storage space: The more the better, and the cheaper the better. In other words, solid state has a ways to go before posing any legitimate threat to hard disk drives."


Indeed.



For the average consumer, yes. For some of us a fast boot drive with a large data drive makes a lot of sense, so we now have a new object of technolust... ;-)

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shawns_maggot 
30/1/08 2:28:09 PM
Learner
These look like a good idea. The cost needs to drop a bit more for them to be competitive. The Asus EeePC is a good example of what the future of computers with SSD's in them may look like. The other thing is lifespan, whats the lifespan of these SSD's, I know that USB flash drives have a limited read/write cycle. What about SSD's??

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.:Cyb3rGlitch:. 
30/1/08 3:54:22 PM
Titan

Quote by shawns_maggot
What about SSD's??


SSD's also have limited write cycles. But I expect them to last longer than HDDs because of the lack of moving parts (which means no chance of mechanical failure). The amount of write cycles depend on the model of the SDD. The ASUS Eee's SSD is 100,000 write cycles, but more capacity usually equals more longevity.

BTW, SSDs can range from 25MB/s to 110MB+/s, so far the MTRONS have the fastest drives AFAIK.

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The Fuzz damn you! 
2/2/08 1:25:39 PM
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Quote by iamthemaxx
Interesting overview on why SSD is not being picked up so quickly;
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2008/01/solid_state_drives

"The bottom line is that consumers are voting for storage space: The more the better, and the cheaper the better. In other words, solid state has a ways to go before posing any legitimate threat to hard disk drives."
Indeed.


Like I said... :-P

However...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080201/tc_pcworld/142085

73% drop in NAND Flash prices in 5 month? That means double the capacity for half the price. That won't be sustained of course, since this is the result of oversupply rather than improved manufacturing, but it does still demonstrate the room for growth in the flash market (which, alone, is reason enough to love Apple forever). Give it a few years, and flash will certainly be threatening traditional HDDs unless Seagate and WD (and others) really pick up their game, and start delivering on a few of the techs they've been promising.

Further down the line, http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080201-new-high-speed-flash-gets-giant-speed-boost.html high-speed flash should provide something of an incentive to move away from HDDs. 64GB+ drives (RAIDed if you're after more space and speed) will make putting OS + programs on an SDD actually *useful* by drastically reducing boot times. Yummy.

Be interesting to see what sort of "continuous shooting" speeds digi-cam manufacturers can come up with once they start supporting high-speed flash.

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iamthemaxx 
5/2/08 9:58:25 AM
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http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/02/ssd_prices_dropping_32gb_iphone_not_too_far_off-2.html

"While getting a laptop with an SSD inside is still ridiculously expensive, it won't be that way for long. That's because the price of flash memory is plummeting, with it dropping 75% in the last 5 months alone. In fact, 1GB chipsets are selling for as low as US$2.23, with 4GB chipsets going for as low as US$12.30."


Things are looking good for the second half of this year!

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