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AVG or Avast! ?
g0t.w00t? 
12/7/08 7:42:47 PM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
A false positive is preferable to a true negative.

Can you actually give some examples of Avast having false positives? It can be somewhat dependent on your configuration.

You can see AVG is not up to the task when you need to run a second scanner.



every time i received a file on msn from a trusted friend avast would skitz out saying it was infect, so i had to run another scan anyway to see it if was or not.

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Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

TheSecret 
12/7/08 9:07:55 PM
Disciple
You had your scan level set to high, you could have had it on medium, or just have disabled the IM module.

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g0t.w00t? 
12/7/08 9:19:07 PM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
You had your scan level set to high, you could have had it on medium, or just have disabled the IM module.



i custom set all my AV software if i'm using it. it was not set too high.

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Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

TheSecret 
12/7/08 11:29:40 PM
Disciple
I did not say too high, I said high, which is a predefined level.

Are you saying the scanning level was normal, and you still had too many false positives? Can you give just one example?

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g0t.w00t? 
12/7/08 11:50:08 PM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
I did not say too high, I said high, which is a predefined level.

Are you saying the scanning level was normal, and you still had too many false positives? Can you give just one example?




I have already given you the answer. the files i receive on msn have never been infected with anything, yet avast has always said they have, no matter what i did to it to change it's sensitivity or what it was picking up. AVG has only fucked up once for me, therefore it gets my vote.

i would rather have true virus detections than have to fuck around verifying if its a false positive. i run 2 scans anyway, one with trend micro housecall after i run avg

-----
Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

TheSecret 
13/7/08 12:17:06 AM
Disciple
You run 2 scans because you use an ineffective virus scanner.

MSN Viruses have a particular pattern, and are easy to distinguish from actual messages sent by people. You either did have viruses, which avast correctly detected and AVG did not, or you did not have a virus and did not customize your alert levels.

End of story.

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g0t.w00t? 
13/7/08 3:40:13 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
You run 2 scans because you use an ineffective virus scanner.

MSN Viruses have a particular pattern, and are easy to distinguish from actual messages sent by people. You either did have viruses, which avast correctly detected and AVG did not, or you did not have a virus and did not customize your alert levels.

End of story.



no.

i know what an msn virus looks like. i know what my alert levels were. avast was picking up shit that wasn't there. AVG didn't pickup imaginary virii.

i run the 2nd one only when i am really suss about something, which isn't often.

end of story

-----
Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

TheSecret 
13/7/08 4:13:09 AM
Disciple
Unless you can actually provide an example of one of these alleged false positives, your story has no credibility. I have never seen Avast have a false positive. This is in my work, in hundreds of different configurations and ranges of infection. It is far more likely that there was a virus, and you did not have the experience to detect it.

There really is not much more to say unless you provide an example of a false positive you received from msn. If what you are saying is true, then other people would have had the same problem, and you would be able to find an example quite easily. However, it is far more probably that you are simply incorrect.

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g0t.w00t? 
13/7/08 9:44:36 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
Unless you can actually provide an example of one of these alleged false positives, your story has no credibility. I have never seen Avast have a false positive. This is in my work, in hundreds of different configurations and ranges of infection. It is far more likely that there was a virus, and you did not have the experience to detect it.

There really is not much more to say unless you provide an example of a false positive you received from msn. If what you are saying is true, then other people would have had the same problem, and you would be able to find an example quite easily. However, it is far more probably that you are simply incorrect.



i'm sorry, what is so hard to grasp about this? i have never gotten a virus from msn messenger. avast was seeing things that WERE NOT THERE.

how many times do i have to say it?

this is personal experience, i really don't give two shits what you use at work and what you think of whatever AV i use. I have an IT background, so yes i do have a clue to what i am talking about.

don't be so passive aggressive.

edit - also, just going by your logic, you saying that your use of avast at work is not enough evidence for me to say that it is a good AV. please provide evidence.

by the way, who the fuck are you to gauge the experience i have? or to demand evidence more than what i have said? are you a high court judge? get ya hand off it...


Edited by g0t.w00t?: 13/7/2008 9:53:32 AM

-----
Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

bowiee 
13/7/08 11:12:12 AM
Hero
Guru


Quote by g0t.w00t?
Quote by TheSecret
Unless you can actually provide an example of one of these alleged false positives, your story has no credibility. I have never seen Avast have a false positive. This is in my work, in hundreds of different configurations and ranges of infection. It is far more likely that there was a virus, and you did not have the experience to detect it.

There really is not much more to say unless you provide an example of a false positive you received from msn. If what you are saying is true, then other people would have had the same problem, and you would be able to find an example quite easily. However, it is far more probably that you are simply incorrect.



i'm sorry, what is so hard to grasp about this? i have never gotten a virus from msn messenger. avast was seeing things that WERE NOT THERE.

how many times do i have to say it?

this is personal experience, i really don't give two shits what you use at work and what you think of whatever AV i use. I have an IT background, so yes i do have a clue to what i am talking about.

don't be so passive aggressive.

edit - also, just going by your logic, you saying that your use of avast at work is not enough evidence for me to say that it is a good AV. please provide evidence.

by the way, who the fuck are you to gauge the experience i have? or to demand evidence more than what i have said? are you a high court judge? get ya hand off it...


Edited by g0t.w00t?: 13/7/2008 9:53:32 AM



Nar he just has a thing about AVG despite millions of people using it without problems. He jumps on anyone who disagrees with him demanding proof, rather than excepting your own personal experience as evidence.

And excepting that you can post an opinion on your own personal experience and people can take that or leave it as they see fit.

And while it is fine to challenge someone's point of view,to do it ad nauseum is just trolling.

He will jump on me again, but I don't feed the trolls any more.

EDIT: Fat fingers.


Edited by bowiee: 13/7/2008 12:38:52 PM

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"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein.
"Note to self....Don't feed the trolls"




TheSecret 
13/7/08 9:14:45 PM
Disciple
The reason I ask for evidence, is that it is actually part of my job, to deal with viruses and other malicious software. I work in the computer security industry, as opposed to just working in IT, or "having an IT background". Most people really don't know what they are talking about, and are satisfied with the illusion of security.

I am more than willing to admit that I am wrong, and that avast is giving several false positives, but you can not even give any proof of this, which if it were happening surely at least one of person would have said so on here, or the avast forums. This logically implies the problem is with you're setup, not avast. You could at least give some information so this alleged problem could try and be duplicated.

For the record, trolling is not challenging what someone says frequently, if what is being said is frequently incorrect. Trolling is looking to argue for no reason, and incite a flame war. I know you're the type of person bowiee who would rather namecall than apologize, but just in case, I will be waiting.

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g0t.w00t? 
13/7/08 9:56:18 PM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
The reason I ask for evidence, is that it is actually part of my job, to deal with viruses and other malicious software. I work in the computer security industry, as opposed to just working in IT, or "having an IT background". Most people really don't know what they are talking about, and are satisfied with the illusion of security.

I am more than willing to admit that I am wrong, and that avast is giving several false positives, but you can not even give any proof of this, which if it were happening surely at least one of person would have said so on here, or the avast forums. This logically implies the problem is with you're setup, not avast. You could at least give some information so this alleged problem could try and be duplicated.

For the record, trolling is not challenging what someone says frequently, if what is being said is frequently incorrect. Trolling is looking to argue for no reason, and incite a flame war. I know you're the type of person bowiee who would rather namecall than apologize, but just in case, I will be waiting.



by background i mean that i also have quals in networking and have studied network security. and you are trolling in my opinion. the information was there, JFGI

my information that avast throws false positives is correct

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=37012.0
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=32650.0
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=29689.0
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=30614.0
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=10492.0
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=7057.0

6 threads on FP's, there are more if you like.

Quote by TheSecret
you can not even give any proof of this, which if it were happening surely at least one of person would have said so on here, or the avast forums.



im sorry what? for someone claiming that avast is the best you seem to do little to no research. i didn't even need to grab these, but seeing as my say so isn't good enough...

again, by your logic, you now have to provide evidence that it doesn't throw FP's.

-----
Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

TheSecret 
13/7/08 10:12:11 PM
Master
I am not trolling, I am arguing against what you are saying, as I believe it to be incorrect. I am also interested in finding out if what you say is right, as it will further my own knowledge. Your qualifications in networking, and a few subjects in network security are not the same, in fact not even close, to having 5+ years experience in the field. Sorry.

As far as the posts you provided alleging you were correct:

The first false positive was fixed immediately, and had nothing to do with MSN.

The second link is from 7 months ago, and was not resolved, and it sounds like it actually was not a false positive.

The third post was indeed only detected by Avast, it most likely was a false positive, that is now fixed, and has nothing to do with MSN.

The fourth post seems to have been a rare instance, where the result of computed data resembled malicious software. This rarely happens, and could not be duplicated in the post. Again, nothing to do with MSN.

The fifth post was an older version of software that was identified as a trojan by more than just avast, but later versions of the software were not identified as a threat. Without being bothered looking into that software it is possible the older version was compromised in some way.

The final post, from 2004 by the way(So therefore irrelivant, as avast has improved significantly in the last 4.5 years) was where the developers admitted their mistake, and that problem is long since fixed.

You did not provide one post or evidence showing a false positive in relation to files received over msn. Additionally half of the posts you linked to, were so old as to be irrelevant. You have not yet done as I asked, and shown evidence or proof of the claim you have made. The onus lies with you to do this.


Edited by TheSecret: 13/7/2008 10:33:18 PM

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g0t.w00t? 
14/7/08 12:21:31 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
I am not trolling, I am arguing against what you are saying, as I believe it to be incorrect. I am also interested in finding out if what you say is right, as it will further my own knowledge. Your qualifications in networking, and a few subjects in network security are not the same, in fact not even close, to having 5+ years experience in the field. Sorry.

As far as the posts you provided alleging you were correct:

The first false positive was fixed immediately, and had nothing to do with MSN.

The second link is from 7 months ago, and was not resolved, and it sounds like it actually was not a false positive.

The third post was indeed only detected by Avast, it most likely was a false positive, that is now fixed, and has nothing to do with MSN.

The fourth post seems to have been a rare instance, where the result of computed data resembled malicious software. This rarely happens, and could not be duplicated in the post. Again, nothing to do with MSN.

The fifth post was an older version of software that was identified as a trojan by more than just avast, but later versions of the software were not identified as a threat. Without being bothered looking into that software it is possible the older version was compromised in some way.

The final post, from 2004 by the way(So therefore irrelivant, as avast has improved significantly in the last 4.5 years) was where the developers admitted their mistake, and that problem is long since fixed.

You did not provide one post or evidence showing a false positive in relation to files received over msn. Additionally half of the posts you linked to, were so old as to be irrelevant. You have not yet done as I asked, and shown evidence or proof of the claim you have made. The onus lies with you to do this.


Edited by TheSecret: 13/7/2008 10:33:18 PM



look, this is pointless, my personal experience obviously means shit all to you.

my point wasnt about only FP's over msn, it was that avast throws them up in general (personal exp). you discount every single thing i say, no matter what it is, including my personal findings - repeatedly asking for evidence i would need a time machine to go back and find, splitting hairs to say i am incorrect - hence trolling. in the same vein, i want credentials and referees to your 5 years in the field (see how dumb this all is?)

this argument won't be resolved. you like it, i don't. leave it alone.


edit - and we have completely de-railed the thread. i was offering my opinion on which i would use.


Edited by g0t.w00t?: 14/7/2008 12:25:16 AM

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Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

TheSecret 
14/7/08 1:07:40 AM
Master
I did not question that you studied and have qualifications in networking and security, just that your personal evaluation of avast was inaccurate. How is asking to validate my claim of experience related to me asking you to validate your claim about avast? If you really want to, you can contact roman at m-privacy in germany, website is www.m-privacy.de

You are right, I don't trust your personal experience, because if nothing else, from what you have described it is inadequate. If you truly wanted to resolve this argument, you could install avast and try to duplicate this.

As it stands, you made a claim which you are unable to backup, and are asking people to go by your word. For some people that is enough, but I like to rely on facts, not hearsay. And so, you are backing out of the argument with unfounded accusations of trolling.

For me, unlike most people(which is another reason I don't place weight on most peoples opinions) I only care about the technical merits of what I am evaluating. This is not about if I like or dislike software, is is about, in this context, what is most efficient, reliable and accurate, which out of AVG and Avast, is Avast. If you want to place weight on peoples opinions, you can see most people agree going by the replies in this thread.

Your opinion is worthless since it is based on perception and unfounded claims, and I was right to discount it. Of course I will expect yet another accusation of trolling from you in response. I will reply when you can actually support your claim/opinion.

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g0t.w00t? 
14/7/08 1:38:35 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
Your opinion is worthless



sorry what? i gave my opinion on the thread and it's worthless? that statement is pretty aggressive.

Quote by TheSecret it is based on perception and unfounded claims


it IS an opinion, i suggest you look it up in a dictionary. unfounded? i think not, i posted evidence of false positives.

Quote by TheSecret I was right to discount it


that is your choice, it is only an opinion and you do not have to take it on board

Quote by TheSecret Of course I will expect yet another accusation of trolling from you in response.


because that is what you are doing, being deliberately obstructive and inflammatory.

Quote by TheSecret I will reply when you can actually support your claim/opinion.


i have supported it, it is my personal experience with avast. that is enough evidence. why? because the thread was asking for opinions on what other people think is better.


Edited by g0t.w00t?: 14/7/2008 1:41:28 AM

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Q6600 @ 3.20
2 gig g.skill ram (5-5-5-15)
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS5
MSI HD2600XT Heatpipe (garbage)
80GB WD
160GB WD
250GB WD


that white guy

Mac Dude 
14/7/08 8:10:00 AM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


Quote by TheSecret
Your opinion is worthless since it is based on perception and unfounded claims, and I was right to discount it. Of course I will expect yet another accusation of trolling from you in response. I will reply when you can actually support your claim/opinion.



Given that this is an online forum, most of what you will get is personal opinion, including what you have posted. Very few people run specific benchmarks to prove ANYTHING.

Let's try and keep the discussion civil, shall we?

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If you stay calm whilst all around you is chaos
....then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation

TheSecret 
15/7/08 1:39:24 AM
Master
Quote by Mac Dude
Quote by TheSecret
Your opinion is worthless since it is based on perception and unfounded claims, and I was right to discount it. Of course I will expect yet another accusation of trolling from you in response. I will reply when you can actually support your claim/opinion.



Given that this is an online forum, most of what you will get is personal opinion, including what you have posted. Very few people run specific benchmarks to prove ANYTHING.

Let's try and keep the discussion civil, shall we?



Certainly, I understand that the majority of what people say will be opinion. However there is opinion based on relevant knowledge and experience, which carries more weight as opposed to opinion based on intuition, which is unfortunately predominant.

I feel I have kept the conversation civil, you will note I have not been making unfounded accusation or namecalling, however if you feel I am not being civil, please let me know what I could do to be more so.

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bowiee 
15/7/08 2:45:50 PM
Hero
Guru


I will break my "don't feed the troll" rule just to say "you will never learn will you ?" It was his own personal experience with avast he was commenting on, take it or leave it PERIOD!!!!

If you don't like the responses leave............PLEASE.

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"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein.
"Note to self....Don't feed the trolls"




iamthemaxx 
15/7/08 3:32:30 PM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


I don't think this is trolling, from what I can see there is some pretty logical arguments put forward here, and g0t.w00t? seems to be taking them a tad too personal when they are not being put forward as such.


Perhaps g0t.w00t? can take the words of Macca on board as well. If you don't like TheSecret's opinion on your opinion, just ignore it.

It is a two way street after all.
Now, let's all relax with a big bowel of strawberry ice cream.

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