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Linux not for Desktops?......Yeah Right..
TheSecret 
8/8/08 12:32:38 AM
Master
Quote by Waltish
Them that hack will still have their open packages, this is aimed at gaining traction in the desktop market place and mostly on the business desktop.

w



It is an idiotic attempt at doing so.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
8/8/08 1:29:12 AM
Hero
Titan


No see in the business space its not important, business mostly buys into proprietary support systems but lots of Linux desktops exposes the workers of those businesses to Linux and those workers may well opt for Linux at home, at home they will be free to use what distro they want.

Mind share is important.

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replace monopoly with choice

TheSecret 
8/8/08 2:41:24 AM
Master
It isn't a cult.....

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
8/8/08 4:14:36 AM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
It isn't a cult.....



WTF! Your are the one one implying it is with that claim.

Its about the future of computing... If business desktops increase mind share and exposure , it can only be a good thing.


Edited by Waltish: 8/8/2008 4:17:16 AM

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replace monopoly with choice

wilsontc 
8/8/08 10:48:16 AM
Guru

Quote by Waltish
Quote by TheSecret
It isn't a cult.....



WTF! Your are the one one implying it is with that claim.



Why do you think the goal is to win users? It's not!

Seriously Waltish, where do you get off? Why do you love this political stuff so much? And why do you keep contradicting yourself so much? In every other thread, and now I'm thinking of a recent thread in the Mac section, you claim to hate closed source software. If I point out Linux is not really as open as you think, you always attack me and call me a BSD fanboy. There have even been threads where I _have't_ even mentioned BSD yet you still flame me for this.

I just don't get you. We've been having this debate of whether or not Linux is ready for desktops for the last few months through different threads. But you keep bringing it up because
a) you can't give _any_ ground. You're always right, and we're always wrong
b) you have no facts to base your arguments on, only quotes from certain developers and stuff you read on groklaw.

So for the love of God, can we all please give up on this, and concentrate on the technical questions? I never see you post in those ones Waltish.

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Quote by Kothos
More importantly, do any of you girls like arse hair??



TheSecret 
8/8/08 11:55:05 AM
Master
Waltish,

I didn't make a claim, I made a statement..

Wilsontc makes a very good point. If you want to ignore the facts and have faith, by all means go for it. Or even don't ignore the facts, and make reasonable predictions, that you hope will come to frution. But blind faith, backed by arbitrary references which do not necessarily support you're claim in the way you think, helps no one.

If you want to help linux become more mature on the desktop, why not write some guides on how to migrate to open office, showing how to do things like mail merge and macros for users used to the microsoft word way. Or you could learn to program and start reverse engineering those pesky closed source drivers. Or as wilsontc points out, post in some more technical threads, showing new users why it is a good alternative. If you're going to be a fundamentalist, at least do it right.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

bastard 
8/8/08 11:56:58 AM
Titan

One thing I have noticed that people seem to miss is that adoption of the operating environment is different for many types of environments.

In a Small - Medium Business environment, what people can do at home quite often dictates what gets used in the office. Why? Because in a small business people have more roles and get a higher opinion of themselves and expect to use their work computer like a home PC. So from that point of view,IBM etc... would have to target the home market first and then use that influence to gain traction in the SBS environment. I know this because of what I my profession is, I implement Citrix in companies. Seeing a user chuck the shits because you have changed the way they have access applications is something I see quite a bit.

On an Enterprise level it is different, Operating environment is dictated to by corporate policies and users are there to perform a particular role, if the top brass says "change the desktops" then that is what happens. But it is the top people that have to make the decisions and you have to convince them that they will still be able to make use of all the production systems that they have in place now. So Activesync etc... will need to be reproduced and be supportable.

Bare in mind that the cost of supporting such an environment would go up due to the fact that while Windows Desktops support engineers are easy to come by, LDS engineers are not as common, and you can bet your arse that the Linux sysadmin is not going to want to go round supporting desktops.

There is a lot more involved to switching to different operating system environment than just rolling out an image and saying "here you lot, go work."



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You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

wilsontc 
8/8/08 12:23:03 PM
Guru

Quote by bastard
There is a lot more involved to switching to different operating system environment than just rolling out an image and saying "here you lot, go work."



Yes, absolutely. I think it was David Heinemeier Hansson (creator of Ruby on Rails) who said "Implementation is only the start of the program's life cycle".

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Quote by Kothos
More importantly, do any of you girls like arse hair??



Invention 
8/8/08 12:48:42 PM
Primarch

Quote by wilsontc
Quote by bastard
There is a lot more involved to switching to different operating system environment than just rolling out an image and saying "here you lot, go work."



Yes, absolutely. I think it was David Heinemeier Hansson (creator of Ruby on Rails) who said "Implementation is only the start of the program's life cycle".



That makes sense. Ruby sure seems like a system that went through no Specification or Design phases.

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wilsontc 
8/8/08 12:52:59 PM
Guru

Quote by Invention
Quote by wilsontc
Quote by bastard
There is a lot more involved to switching to different operating system environment than just rolling out an image and saying "here you lot, go work."



Yes, absolutely. I think it was David Heinemeier Hansson (creator of Ruby on Rails) who said "Implementation is only the start of the program's life cycle".



That makes sense. Ruby sure seems like a system that went through no Specification or Design phases.



Are you referring to the actual language, or the interpreter?

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Quote by Kothos
More importantly, do any of you girls like arse hair??



Invention 
8/8/08 1:02:44 PM
Primarch

It was developed as a tool to aid in his own development. It was not originally intended to be a released system.


Edited by Invention: 8/8/2008 1:03:28 PM

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Waltish 
8/8/08 4:06:08 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by wilsontc
Quote by Waltish
Quote by TheSecret
It isn't a cult.....



WTF! Your are the one one implying it is with that claim.



Why do you think the goal is to win users? It's not!

Seriously Waltish, where do you get off? Why do you love this political stuff so much? And why do you keep contradicting yourself so much? In every other thread, and now I'm thinking of a recent thread in the Mac section, you claim to hate closed source software. If I point out Linux is not really as open as you think, you always attack me and call me a BSD fanboy. There have even been threads where I _have't_ even mentioned BSD yet you still flame me for this.

I just don't get you. We've been having this debate of whether or not Linux is ready for desktops for the last few months through different threads. But you keep bringing it up because
a) you can't give _any_ ground. You're always right, and we're always wrong
b) you have no facts to base your arguments on, only quotes from certain developers and stuff you read on groklaw.

So for the love of God, can we all please give up on this, and concentrate on the technical questions? I never see you post in those ones Waltish.


Hahaha I don't want to concentrate on the technical questions nor am I compelled to.

There are plenty of folks here able to do that better than me.

But there is more to it that just that, our future is up for grabs and being fought over as we speak.
Politics is playing and is going to play a very important role in our computing freedom.
Where do you get off telling me what I can and cant discuss.

If we don't pay attention to the politics we wont see our freedom being legislated away.

Anyway you don't set the agenda for what is discussed, like I said if you don't like the stuff I post don't read it and RTM it if you like, let the mods decide if Its postable.

{:))
PS:
I know I am getting it right when you and the secret come to diss it. {:))


Edited by Waltish: 8/8/2008 04:12:03 PM

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replace monopoly with choice

TheSecret 
8/8/08 6:53:42 PM
Master
So do you mean to say, Linux, or perhaps OSS in general(although since you allegedly don't like BSD perhaps just Linux?) is the key to our freedom and liberty, and ridding ourselves of our opressors?

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Midnighter 
8/8/08 7:25:38 PM
Immortal

Where ever has Waltish ever said he dislikes BSD? Making shit up again are we?

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Be careful with people. Try to live your life without hurting, without abusing, or shattering or betraying.
-In a war, there are no good guys, and no bad guys. There are only opposing forces.

TheSecret 
8/8/08 7:32:23 PM
Master
Midnighter,

Can you link to one example, anywhere, where I have made something up?

I said allegedly, because I have seen several references to Waltish not liking BSD, but nothing by waltish himself to back this up. That what I said allegedly, and put in a question mark..you know....making it a question.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

TheSecret 
8/8/08 10:02:10 PM
Primarch
I guess this article is an interesting contrast to what you originally posted.

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/08/07/ibm-exec-linux-apps-im-tired-waiting

See how I just posted the URL, and did not have to copy pages of text into the forum, making it easier for everybody?

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
8/8/08 10:28:59 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
I guess this article is an interesting contrast to what you originally posted.

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/08/07/ibm-exec-linux-apps-im-tired-waiting

See how I just posted the URL, and did not have to copy pages of text into the forum, making it easier for everybody?


No I have just at times posted the links and then been told to post the page, but any way you don't get to tell me how to post.
If you dont like it dont read it and feel free to rtm it.

I dont often post this kind of stuff but the reaction from some folks has convince me I need to post more of the same.

While we ignore the politics the Monopolith uses politics to maintain its criminal monopoly, and vested interests use politics to bind our computing to their profits.

This will not do.. we need to be aware.. and fight for our right to party };-)



Edited by Waltish: 8/8/2008 10:29:52 PM

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replace monopoly with choice

TheSecret 
8/8/08 10:40:07 PM
Primarch
Did you even read the article?

What criminal monopoly are you talking about? As unethical as you may find something does not make it illegal.

You dont like people even suggesting you post in a more readable way, but have taken it upon yourself to convert us all to your cult, to save us from ourselves and our opressors?

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
9/8/08 5:37:29 AM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
Did you even read the article?

What criminal monopoly are you talking about? As unethical as you may find something does not make it illegal.

You dont like people even suggesting you post in a more readable way, but have taken it upon yourself to convert us all to your cult, to save us from ourselves and our opressors?



Not a cult its an alternate IT environment to the model based on the Robber Barons.

I posted a news article , was told to not get political and replied that politics is important as the Enslavers of our IT future are using politics to do so.

The criminal monopoly is Microsoft a three times convicted monopolist, being convicted makes one a criminal.

I did take the suggestion to makes some spaces which I did.
When you are a mod tell me how to post till then keep you advice to your self and get some time up... folks round here don't like just a link in the post , they are link averse, you would know that if had been here longer.
--------------------
Back on topic the significant part of the OP for me is that if there is substantial corporate takeup of these business desktops... a lot of people that have never used Linux before will be using it at work.

It could well increase the personal usage of Linux at their homes.

For me its a good thing if more folks use Linux at home and at work as that means hardware manufacturers will have more incentive to make their components Linux compatable.

With enough of a user base even major games may end up being ported to the Linux platform.

Politics is a numbers game .. to have influence you need to have the numbers.

{:)


Edited by Waltish: 9/8/2008 07:01:47 AM

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replace monopoly with choice

zebra 
9/8/08 11:36:52 AM
SuperHero
Titan


I'll add my bit.

In the current form, I deem no Linux distribution worthy of my time in a desktop environment/productivity environment. I've lived with it for too long/had too much experience/too many bad situations to think otherwise currently.

I don't have no hope for it. I have hope - I just don't see it being something I can rely on in the 100% mission critical situations I work/live in currently. Time might change it and my mind might change, but for me currently, it is very much second best to the UNIX world I dwell in, in terms of the faith I have in it.

If there is any politics to it - I don't really mind/care. I don't rely on Linux kernel's to do the things I need them to do, because they just can't. This isn't because Linux is "bad" or "isn't as good as XYZ". It's design goals just don't have in mind the things I expect of an OS, on an enterprise/heavy lifting scale.

I actually believe the politics, if it is there, will ultimately harm Linux and the community that give it life, rather than fuel it or make it better.

z

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Specs:

I don't own a computer.

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