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Discuss: Credit crunch angst boosts open source software
TheSecret 
17/8/08 4:45:25 PM
Primarch
superfireydave,

It was not 95% of each studio as a whole, but all the studios and industry together.. How was that not being used? Given that, it would be implied they are used for film editing, which is not currently possible. They would have substantially more than 5% dedicated to editing film.

Please check your arguments next time.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

superfireydave 
17/8/08 4:51:22 PM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
superfireydave,

It was not 95% of each studio as a whole, but all the studios and industry together.. How was that not being used? Given that, it would be implied they are used for film editing, which is not currently possible. They would have substantially more than 5% dedicated to editing film.

Please check your arguments next time.


Let's see.
Say 50% render line.
20% documentation.
25% office use.
That leaves us with 5% editing and post production (assuming there are also no decent OS post production programs).
"Given that, it would be implied they are used for film editing" No, it doesn't imply that they use linux for film editing at all. If there are no decent linux apps for editing film, then is it not feasible that the other 5% that are not linux could be used for video editing (like I've said before in this thread!?)

I'm all for people arguing logically, but you're a) not arguing a point that ANYONE HAS MADE IN THIS THREAD and b) NOT READING ANYONES POSTS PROPERLY.

edit: "They would have substantially more than 5% dedicated to editing film." Really? You know this how? You work in the film industry do you? You've worked on large projects involving animation and 3D and have assisted in the compositing stages and post production? Really? Wow. Then I'm sorry I ever doubted you. When I've done any 3D animation that needed post production, the post production took less than 3% of the total time spend. Mainly because in animation and 3D you don't have to edit everything using a movie editing program, because you're capable of having it turn out much closer to how you want it straight from your render etc.

But if you've worked in those industries and know better than I, I'll accede you are correct and my arguements are flawed.


Edited by superfireydave: 17/8/2008 4:54:49 PM

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

TheSecret 
17/8/08 5:23:53 PM
Primarch
superfireydave,

Stop getting all hussey, and read the thread again. It was claimed that 95% of serves and desktops run linux. Athrils original quote:

Linux is the most popular operating system for big budget feature film animation and visual effects, with more than 95% of the servers and desktops at large animation and visual effects companies.

How is a point that no one made?

I never said that the remaining 5% could not be used for film editing, but that since there would not be 95% used by linux, there would be far more than 5% left. Who is not reading posts properly?

I know they would have 5%, because a cursory search shows, studios tend to have 1/3 desktops as they do servers, and because I do know people who work in the film industry, not the big hollywood one, but still. I never said anything about £d animation, but about live film editing, please read my posts more carefully.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

superfireydave 
17/8/08 6:33:19 PM
Titan

at large animation and visual effects companies. is the part you've ignored again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
Wow.
"When I've done any 3D animation that needed post production, the post production took less than 3% of the total time spend"
Wow.
Connection? PERHAPS.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

TheSecret 
17/8/08 6:40:50 PM
Primarch
Wow.

I apologize, I really missed that. I read Big feature film animation and visual effects, as Big feature film, animation and visual effects. A subtle difference, that did not exist.

Waltish was still arguing that there were live editing tools however, and you were the first person to point out my mistake, so I am sorry for dragging that on.

I concede that it has a majority market share in 3D animation movie studios, but not live films(which was not a point anyway.)

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
17/8/08 10:04:15 PM
Hero
Titan


Well there are live editing tools but you reckon they are shit.

But that is not what I was on about at all, I posted some links to show that feature production houses use linux, I did that in support of the OP.

What I was on about to you was that you should substantiate your claims.



Edited by Waltish: 17/8/2008 11:11:37 PM

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

TheSecret 
18/8/08 5:22:51 AM
Primarch
I did, I gave you a link, and showed the current editing tools. Simply look at the bugs and missing features on their home pages, or any number of users saying they are not fit for the task.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

superfireydave 
18/8/08 10:09:41 AM
Titan

The fact that they have linux computers in a film company does not mean they're used for film editing ffs.
There are, to my knowledge, no linux compatible editing or post production tools which are industry standard.

But even so, that doesn't mean that the linux machines a company runs HAVE to be used for film editing. I'd wager most of them are used for 3D (for example, the studio that did Titanic was mentioned, the Titanic in the movie was CGI). But again, the 95% figure does not apply to ALL film studios, only those doing lots of 3D and animation.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

TheSecret 
18/8/08 10:33:36 AM
Primarch
Superfireydave,

I'm not disagreeing with you, I already conceded the point above, because I interpreted a post incorrectly. Waltish is now implying there are decent film editing and post production tools available, which are usable. I am trying to show this is not the case.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

superfireydave 
18/8/08 11:19:32 AM
Titan

Waltish posted this list:
Who already uses Linux?

Filmmakers

* Pixar (Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc, The Incredibles, Toy Story)
* Dreamworks
* Industrial Light and Magic
* WetaDigital (The Lord of the Rings, "I, Robot")
* Digital Domain (Titanic)
* Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging (a 4k digital intermediate facility)
* Rising Sun Pictures (Last Samurai, Harry Potter 4, Superman Returns, Charlotte's Web)
* Rhythm and Hues (Harry Potter, Cats & Dogs, Dr. Dolittle 2, Little Nicky, Grinch, Sixth Day, Stuart Little, Planet of the Apes)
* Sony Pictures Imageworks (Stuart Little II)
* La ménagerie (in french)
* C.O.R.E.
* The Moving Picture Company (Harry Potter, Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)
* BUF
----------------------
Others

* Most world famous Computer Science Universities (MIT, CalTech, Paderborn)
* The Government of the People's Republic of China
* Google
* NASA
* CELCO
* The NSA
* Large part of French government, public service and administration.
* The German government installed Suse on 11,000 police computers in Feb 2004
* The German Railway! - 55,000 computers
* The city of Vienna, capital of Austria uses a distribution of its own (Wienux) in administration.
* Cuba 1,500 computers
* South African public service and administration
* Some Spanish provinces.
* The United States Navy
* Venezuela government (60%)
---------------------------

That second list is a bit out of date there have been some massive Linux rollouts recently {:))

Which is what my post above was in reference to.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

TheSecret 
18/8/08 4:58:07 PM
Primarch
Yes...

You cant say no one is saying there are not live film editing tools for linux, or at least implying?

These are the quotes waltish made, where I am saying there are no decent editing/post production tools for linux, which you agree with, but waltish is claiming is false. This is back when I did not realiye the original post was only for 3d/animated movies, but since it is still being argued that there are decent editing tools by waltish, it does not matter.

PS: You keep saying those programs are crap, but people keep making great movies with them.

Hmmm who to believe? a cranky OSS hater or professional organisations that keep turning out great movies.
{:))

This one is just dumb.., where did I say I hate OSS?
No don't palm it back to me, you made the claim they aren't using Linux on the desktop and particularly not for editing, you should support the claim.

But maybe they can do what they want, so far its only a claim that they cant.


That's just a claim you have made that there is no decent software to do the editing, now you should back that up with some evidence, until you do its just a claim that you have made.


I have provided evidence..yets till it is claimed..


Edited by TheSecret: 18/8/2008 06:27:39 PM

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
18/8/08 11:46:14 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
Yes...

You cant say no one is saying there are not live film editing tools for linux, or at least implying?

These are the quotes waltish made, where I am saying there are no decent editing/post production tools for linux, which you agree with, but waltish is claiming is false. This is back when I did not realiye the original post was only for 3d/animated movies, but since it is still being argued that there are decent editing tools by waltish, it does not matter.

PS: You keep saying those programs are crap, but people keep making great movies with them.

Hmmm who to believe? a cranky OSS hater or professional organisations that keep turning out great movies.
{:))

This one is just dumb.., where did I say I hate OSS?
No don't palm it back to me, you made the claim they aren't using Linux on the desktop and particularly not for editing, you should support the claim.

But maybe they can do what they want, so far its only a claim that they cant.


That's just a claim you have made that there is no decent software to do the editing, now you should back that up with some evidence, until you do its just a claim that you have made.


I have provided evidence..yets till it is claimed..


Edited by TheSecret: 18/8/2008 06:27:39 PM



You evidence was not very convincing.

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

TheSecret 
19/8/08 12:05:08 AM
Overlord
Whatdoyou want waltish_

Superfireydave is supporting what I am saying, hundreds of users are supporting what I am saying, the lack of an OSS application that has a decent feature set and reached a stable version supports what I am saying, the lack of OSS in movie studios outside of 3d/animation and rendering is supporting what I am saying...

This is why some people might think of you as a fanboi fundamentalist, and why people like you give OSS and Linux a bad name. You want to spread and convert people to use it, fine, but you can't accept where it falls short, and focus on fixing the problems so people will simply want to use it, and not have to be converted.

Seriously, what would you accept as evidence? As I said above, if I am saying something does not exist, it is kind of hard to prove it does not exist. However, as the opposing view, asserting that the same thing I say does not exist, does in factexist, it should be trivial for you to provide proof. Backing away and saying it is not up to you to provide proof is simply cowardly.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
19/8/08 2:54:17 AM
Hero
Titan


Dude just you saying stuff does not make it true.

PS: Get a grip.

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

TheSecret 
19/8/08 4:31:21 AM
Overlord
It does when I have given you EVIDENCE .

But I guess being in denial gives you a sense of security?


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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
19/8/08 6:35:15 AM
Hero
Titan


No what gives me a sense of security is that OSS FOSS FLOSS is a growing thing.. and almost at critical mass in business and government deployments.

w

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

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