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Discuss: Credit crunch angst boosts open source software
TheSecret 
14/8/08 8:45:38 PM
Primarch
Hi Redhatter,

Sorry for the late reply, I thought this thread was two pages and only ever got an error while trying to go to the second page. Maya is great for 3d Rendering, but not for editing a film, and there is no decent linux, or even OSS software to do that.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
14/8/08 11:05:22 PM
Hero
Titan


http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Movie_Making_Manual-Linux_in_film_production

Well there seems to be a fair bit of stuff around... how good it is I don't know.

This bit below from the link is interesting.

Who already uses Linux?

Filmmakers

* Pixar (Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc, The Incredibles, Toy Story)
* Dreamworks
* Industrial Light and Magic
* WetaDigital (The Lord of the Rings, "I, Robot")
* Digital Domain (Titanic)
* Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging (a 4k digital intermediate facility)
* Rising Sun Pictures (Last Samurai, Harry Potter 4, Superman Returns, Charlotte's Web)
* Rhythm and Hues (Harry Potter, Cats & Dogs, Dr. Dolittle 2, Little Nicky, Grinch, Sixth Day, Stuart Little, Planet of the Apes)
* Sony Pictures Imageworks (Stuart Little II)
* La ménagerie (in french)
* C.O.R.E.
* The Moving Picture Company (Harry Potter, Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)
* BUF
----------------------
Others

* Most world famous Computer Science Universities (MIT, CalTech, Paderborn)
* The Government of the People's Republic of China
* Google
* NASA
* CELCO
* The NSA
* Large part of French government, public service and administration.
* The German government installed Suse on 11,000 police computers in Feb 2004
* The German Railway! - 55,000 computers
* The city of Vienna, capital of Austria uses a distribution of its own (Wienux) in administration.
* Cuba 1,500 computers
* South African public service and administration
* Some Spanish provinces.
* The United States Navy
* Venezuela government (60%)
---------------------------

That second list is a bit out of date there have been some massive Linux rollouts recently {:))


Edited by Waltish: 14/8/2008 11:11:00 PM

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

TheSecret 
15/8/08 12:11:43 AM
Primarch
What has NASA, or the NSA, or the German Railway got to do with OSS video editing tools? That book is not so much a book, as useles propaganda.

Most of the programs are crap, or have to be run under WINE, or simply do not exist. The only programs that are stable and used in production are single frame editing tools, there are no decent movie editing tools. This is an example of one of the many areas Linux is not ready.

You will find most of these big companies are using linux for things like rendering, not as their desktop os. Linux in the server space is nothing new, and meaningless to this discussion.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

superfireydave 
15/8/08 10:21:51 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
Athiril,

Just a quick question. Since Linux has 95% of the film industry, can you recommend some good film editing software? Cinelerra and Jahshaka are both complete shit, and I don't see what else there is.


The figures Athiril quoted are for big budget animation. No doubt they have one or two macs running post production programs. But given that the majority of work isn't done in post production, and that a lot of work that's usually done in post production can be done through the 3D packages it's certainly feasible to have 95% linux given Maya is often the program of choice.

edit: And if Linux is the platform of choice for most studios, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they're using it as their OS for CGI, special effects etc.



Edited by superfireydave: 15/8/2008 10:23:08 AM

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

Waltish 
15/8/08 3:53:47 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
What has NASA, or the NSA, or the German Railway got to do with OSS video editing tools? That book is not so much a book, as useles propaganda.

Most of the programs are crap, or have to be run under WINE, or simply do not exist. The only programs that are stable and used in production are single frame editing tools, there are no decent movie editing tools. This is an example of one of the many areas Linux is not ready.

You will find most of these big companies are using linux for things like rendering, not as their desktop os. Linux in the server space is nothing new, and meaningless to this discussion.



According to the link those Film Production Houses make Great Movies using Linux... Get me some links that show those movie houses don't use Linux on their desktops otherwise your just guessing.

And those other Linux users besides being in the Link I posted, are just there to annoy the anti OSS FOSS FLOSS guerillas and trolls.

I heard that if you get them angry enough the computing/IT neocons burst into flames and spontaneously combust. {:))

PS: You keep saying those programs are crap, but people keep making great movies with them.

Hmmm who to believe? a cranky OSS hater or professional organisations that keep turning out great movies.
{:))


Edited by Waltish: 15/8/2008 04:03:03 PM

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

superfireydave 
15/8/08 5:37:05 PM
Titan

Waltish: I wouldn't be surprised if the cinemas had macs as well. opensource movie editing is shit, as is half of the commercial stuff.
But I don't doubt that linux has a place in film studios.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

TheSecret 
15/8/08 8:37:46 PM
Primarch
I concede the point about maya, but unless it is an all 3D movie, the main percentage of a movie is still live, and would still need to be edited.

superfireydave,

I don't doubt that Linux has a place in film studios, I doubt that it has 95% of the market unless it means servers. With the lack of OSS movie editing tools, I don't see it being possible.

Waltish,

I am not guessing, what you are saying is not just wrong, is not just illogical, but is impossible. No one can make great movies with the current OSS video editing tools. Show me one studio not just using Linux, but using an OSS movie editing tools.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
16/8/08 2:09:42 AM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
I concede the point about maya, but unless it is an all 3D movie, the main percentage of a movie is still live, and would still need to be edited.

superfireydave,

I don't doubt that Linux has a place in film studios, I doubt that it has 95% of the market unless it means servers. With the lack of OSS movie editing tools, I don't see it being possible.

Waltish,

I am not guessing, what you are saying is not just wrong, is not just illogical, but is impossible. No one can make great movies with the current OSS video editing tools. Show me one studio not just using Linux, but using an OSS movie editing tools.




No don't palm it back to me, you made the claim they aren't using Linux on the desktop and particularly not for editing, you should support the claim.

I posted those links to support the claim that film folks make movies with Linux, a claim which I didn't initially make.
{:)



Edited by Waltish: 16/8/2008 2:20:56 AM

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

TheSecret 
16/8/08 7:21:06 AM
Primarch
Why would they use Linux on the desktop if they cant do what they need to do on the desktop for their profession?

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
16/8/08 7:38:41 AM
Hero
Titan


But maybe they can do what they want, so far its only a claim that they cant.
{:)

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

superfireydave 
16/8/08 8:33:59 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
I concede the point about maya, but unless it is an all 3D movie, the main percentage of a movie is still live, and would still need to be edited.


Not just 3D, it could be any animated movie really - and that's what the statistic comes from (as I said before) so I'm not sure entirely why you're arguing that not all studies will have 95% linux because that was never put forward as truth.

Waltish has also given some statistics demonstrating that a lot of regular film studios also use linux, which again, doesn't surprise me in the least.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

TheSecret 
16/8/08 8:56:06 AM
Primarch
I was arguing against the 95% number because that is what Athril claimed, and what Waltish seemed to be supporting. If I was wrong about this, I apoligize.

Waltish,

Don't be daft. It was clear I was referring to not being able to edit movies, not frames, not animated, but simple live action films on linux. There is simply no decent software to do that.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
16/8/08 3:58:00 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by TheSecret
I was arguing against the 95% number because that is what Athril claimed, and what Waltish seemed to be supporting. If I was wrong about this, I apoligize.

Waltish,

Don't be daft. It was clear I was referring to not being able to edit movies, not frames, not animated, but simple live action films on linux. There is simply no decent software to do that.



That's just a claim you have made that there is no decent software to do the editing, now you should back that up with some evidence, until you do its just a claim that you have made.

{:)

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

TheSecret 
16/8/08 6:41:59 PM
Primarch
Waltish,

You make me want to cry. I am claiming something does not exist. How can I prove it does not exist? If you want to prove me wrong(you know..ever heard of the scientific method?), then the onus is on you to provide evidence. As it stands, I can not logically defend my claim, but unless it can be proven false, it stands correct.

I don't think I have ever seen an example of stronger denial.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Waltish 
16/8/08 10:19:05 PM
Hero
Titan


Find some links that show what the film houses that use Linux for making films use for editing.

Where did you get the knowledge on which you base your claim, there are a number of ways to substantiate your assertion.

Its not my job to prove you right.

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http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4472654.ece

TheSecret 
16/8/08 11:06:45 PM
Primarch
I provided evidence showing that the current video editing tools for linux were useless. If you think otherwise, then it is up to you to show an existing application that is not useless. My knowledge comes from experience, can be asserted by a simple google search.

Anyway, here is a good article, asserting what I am saying, since research is something above you.

http://www.linux.com/feature/60837

As I said, Linux is used for 3d/animation, perhaps some art effects, servers, rendering, but no on the desktop for editing live films, which most films are.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Deserted 
16/8/08 11:52:39 PM
Champion

Well Pixar for one, don't use openly available tools, they use their own custom softare, which from what I recall is developed on a unix-like platform - for a time they were actually trying to market the PC to universities but it never really took off

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Quote by Redhatter
It's aimed at people wanting a job as a Unix network admin, not point-and-click Windows Cowboys.



Quote by Takoma
Looks like you're the man Deserted.


TheSecret 
17/8/08 12:23:26 AM
Primarch
Pixar don't really make live films though do they.., and anyway, maya and such is already available for linux. Are you saying they have custom software for editing live films?

Edit: I just looked more into it, and they have custom rendering software, so there is still nothing supporting linux on the desktop for film editing.


Edited by TheSecret: 17/8/2008 12:31:27 AM

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

superfireydave 
17/8/08 10:47:04 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
I was arguing against the 95% number because that is what Athril claimed


LEARN TO READ.
"Linux is the most popular operating system for big budget feature film animation and visual effects, with more than 95% of the servers and desktops at large animation and visual effects companies."
NOONE HERE HAS BEEN ARGUING THAT 95% OF EVERY COMPUTER IN EVERY FILM STUDIO WILL BE RUNNING LINUX.
/explodes

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

superfireydave 
17/8/08 10:48:39 AM
Titan

Quote by TheSecret
there is still nothing supporting linux on the desktop for film editing.


WHO CARES!?
Noone has been arguing that Linux is used expressely for film editing.
I've said twice or three times that it's highly likely they've got macs to do that.
If they've got 95% of their computers running linux, I wonder what the other 5% will be doing? Editing film? OH WOW THAT'S AMAZING I DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE ALLOWED TO DO THAT WITH STATISTICS.

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

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