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Discuss: Credit crunch angst boosts open source software
mark84 
29/7/08 12:29:49 PM
Hero
Guru


mark84 thinks:

mmm..
read this yesterday:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=macintos


Linux's share of desktops, meanwhile, fell significantly, according to Forrester, to 0.5% in June from 1.8% in January.



Firefox is making inroads though


Forrester's study examined the Web browser as well as the desktop environments of the 50,000 users, spread out among 2,300 companies. It found that 19.4% of enterprise users are using Firefox, up from 16.8% at the beginning of the year. Meanwhile, Microsoft Internet Explorer's share only slipped slightly, from 79.1% in January to 77.6% at the end of June.

...

Apple Inc.'s Safari owns only a small slice of the market -- 2.4% -- according to Forrester.



About the Atomic article Credit crunch angst boosts open source software

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?CIID=118100

US economy woes != Linux

What do you think?

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iamthemaxx 
29/7/08 12:33:41 PM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


I would hazard a guess and say that this is more geared to enterprise level packages, eg apache, samba (etc) and to a lesser extent MySQL and Openfiler (etc).

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wilsontc 
29/7/08 12:41:25 PM
Guru

Quote by iamthemaxx
I would hazard a guess and say that this is more geared to enterprise level packages, eg apache, samba (etc) and to a lesser extent MySQL and Openfiler (etc).



This is true. Another factor is probably that many enterprises are talking a wait-and-see approach with Windows 2008. That has the snowball affect with Exchange, MS SQL and friends.

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Quote by Kothos
More importantly, do any of you girls like arse hair??



eckythump 
29/7/08 1:56:56 PM
Overlord

This will be interesting to see as time goes on.

Hopefully we'll see many a convert.

Working in the industry for a fair while now, I've seen it many a time when I've come into an office, decomissioned the in-house mailserver running on $4000 hardware and installed FreeBSD + postfix on a $500 machine, which then proceeds to run flawlessly for 5 years until the PSU goes pop.

But then I've also seen it go the other way, where an incompetent sysadmin who is a Windows person, and has limited UNIX clue tries to run a linux/BSD box and has nothing but trouble. Just listen to them sing the praises of Windows and MS when they switch to that and can finally manage to admin it to a respectable level.

(I realise this works both ways, I doubt I'd make a very good Exchange server admin, not that it should really be that hard.)

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Athiril 
29/7/08 10:34:13 PM
Titan

"Linux is used to create practically every blockbuster movie in theaters today, movies produced by Disney/Pixar, DreamWorks Animation, Sony, ILM, and other studios.

Linux is the most popular operating system for big budget feature film animation and visual effects, with more than 95% of the servers and desktops at large animation and visual effects companies. People outside the film industry, and even inside the industry sometimes, don't realize that Linux is so big at large studios"

http://www.linuxmovies.org/

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TheSecret 
30/7/08 7:04:07 AM
Master
There is not likely a correlation between the crunch and open source software, so much as a perception. Firefox is continually gaining ground, and other software, even enterprise, is always alternating somewhat.


Athiril,

That site does not exactly scream reliable. I can understand Linux having a large percentage of servers in the film industry, but desktops? Rendering is one thing, editing and tweaking a film is quite different.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Athiril 
30/7/08 9:34:54 AM
Titan

That site is perfectly reliable.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Hollywood-Loves-Linux-45571.shtml
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5472
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/dcc/revfeat/video_linux_hollywood/


Linux Software used in the industry for various purposes:
CinePaint - used on various block buster movies for retouching, on Linux
http://www.cinepaint.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinePaint

Ever heard of Maya, SoftImage XSI?

All the big software is popular in their Linux releases, might I add Maya for Mac is not popular, where as Maya for Linux is (64-bit vs still 32-bit might be a factor with large productions).

Then their is inhouse software, which is hugely popular in hollywood in massive studios, they have full time developers.

"# DreamWorks SKG - Linux beyond the renderfarm - 9am
Linux has been in use in Hollywood for many years, but mostly behind the scenes generating images based on art created on other platforms. DreamWorks led the effort to use Linux as a complete solution from the artist's desktop to the final output onto film. What were the problems and solutions? Where does Linux at DreamWorks go from here?
Nathan Wilson, Software Technical Lead for Linux. During the studio's transition to Linux, Wilson developed the desktop user configuration, led the software porting effort and created the current software build system.NILE software developer for Prince of Egypt. Software QA lead for The Road to El Dorado. Pipeline software engineer for Spirit Stallion of the Cimarron. Current projects: at Glendale studio, Sinbad, SharkSlayer, and Over the Hedge; at PDI Redwood City, Shrek 2 and Madagascar. "

And that was dated 2003.


http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=7635018&siteID=123112
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=5561833
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=5562767&siteID=123112


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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

TheSecret 
30/7/08 9:56:04 AM
Master
I did not say linux was not used, nor did I even say that it was not a popular choice. But both of those things are a long way from having the insanely large majority share you claimed it has. 95%? Please.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Athiril 
31/7/08 7:46:03 AM
Titan

Go do your homework please.

The figure is likely higher than 95% at this point in time.

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Welcome to the eternal hell of my world, where it is Christmas, all year round.

Starring Jet Li as Santa Claus.

TheSecret 
31/7/08 12:03:38 PM
Master
You are, necessarily, very, very wrong. I can say this speaking not just from a logical, non fanboi point of view, but also being friends with some people in the film industry.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

sponger 
31/7/08 12:32:01 PM
Immortal

Firefox is irrelevant since its competition is free.

The fact that Linux marketshare dropped is evidence to the contrary.

In business, my experience has been that the TCO for Linux and other open source software is generally higher.

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wilsontc 
31/7/08 12:50:42 PM
Guru

I think Athiril just means the big big digital film houses like Pixar and friends, rather than the industry as a whole.

Otherwise I find that figure impossible to believe too!

Quote by sponger
The fact that Linux marketshare dropped is evidence to the contrary.



It's marketshare dropped? So people who bought Redhat or SuSE servers decided that they would install Windows? Or that Windows experienced a huge amount of growth, against all industry trends, so much so, that the new number of Windows installations out numbered the number of new Linux installations?

Not sure I can believe that! Maybe you mean that Linux growth
has stalled? So Linux servers are only growing by 60% instead of 80%?



In business, my experience has been that the TCO for Linux and other open source software is generally higher.



Yeah, this is quite subjective too I feel. Support is a lot harder to get, applications tend to take longer to configure, and Unix people tend to command higher salaries. But a Unix solution tends to take a different shape to a Windows solution in terms of architecture.

I know heaps of small offices who have Windows SBS, and with that, exchange. But all my company's small clients who run Unix generally have just a box running Samba doing AD, and all email is hosted externally. I think it's a lot cheaper that way. I mean, I have clients running their business on a sub $1000 machine, and installing ClarkConnect and configuring Samba takes less than an hour. Whereas SBS costs about $600 alone, plus hardware etc, and it needs patches and stuff too.

But on the other hand, bigger installations requiring more sophisticated email solutions such as calendering etc are harder under Unix. I guess the short answer is, it depends!

It's also been my experience that Unix people tend to be better troubleshooters than "I think it needs a reboot!" MCSEs, so at certain levels, their higher wages are deserved.


Edited by wilsontc: 31/7/2008 01:02:53 PM

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Quote by Kothos
More importantly, do any of you girls like arse hair??



sponger 
31/7/08 3:11:52 PM
Immortal

Quote by wilsontc
Quote by sponger
The fact that Linux marketshare dropped is evidence to the contrary.



It's marketshare dropped? So people who bought Redhat or SuSE servers decided that they would install Windows? Or that Windows experienced a huge amount of growth, against all industry trends, so much so, that the new number of Windows installations out numbered the number of new Linux installations?

Not sure I can believe that! Maybe you mean that Linux growth has stalled? So Linux servers are only growing by 60% instead of 80%?



I was referring to this in the OP:

Linux's share of desktops, meanwhile, fell significantly, according to Forrester, to 0.5% in June from 1.8% in January.

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Redhatter 
31/7/08 5:31:16 PM
Hero
Titan


Quote by sponger
Firefox is irrelevant since its competition is free.



Not it's biggest competitor. Internet Explorer has not been free since 1998 when they bundled it with Windows 98. Prior to this, yes, I agree with you, you got a bare OS with no web browser, installed a free copy of IE... bang, instant web browser.

Now... it's impossible to buy Windows without IE. Indeed now, it is impossible to obtain IE without Windows -- Microsoft recently announced that they would cease providing IE as a separate download, instead bundling it as an OS update.

So no... Internet Explorer is not free... its cost is included in the $500+ license fee to use the OS it is written for.

The only "free" (as in beer) browsers are:
o Firefox (of course)
o Opera
o Safari
o Konqueror (with the experimental port of KDE 4.0 to Win32)
... perhaps a few others, but IE certainly can't be included in this list.

Last version of IE to be truly "free as in beer" would be version 5.5. IE 6.0 does not run on Windows 95, and I don't think it runs on Windows NT 4.0 either.

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I haven't lost my mind it's backed up on a tape somewhere...
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B82R3S 
31/7/08 10:29:51 PM
Titan

One thing that would boost the statistics is that they would have many many many servers running in a cluster running linux and one machine possibly running another OS putting the clusters to work.

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Waltish 
1/8/08 2:05:30 AM
Hero
Titan


The Linux install base is like an Iceberg most of it you cant see, the figures most sites refer to are installs that were sold, Its pretty hard to count all the installs of Linux from magazine cover discs and those that were burnt for friends and passed along etc.
Also companies that go free as in beer OSS by doing all their support in house based on free as in beer distro's and packages.

w

PS: Forrester is not really a trust-able source when it comes to Linux and Gartner stuff needs to be taken with a handful of salt as well.
-----------------------------
Forrester
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/13/anti-linux-studies-forrester/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9964505-16.html
-----------------------------
Gartner

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9910/22/gartner.linux.idg/index.html

http://schestowitz.com/UseNet/2007/December_2007_1/msg00217.html

----------------------------------

{:))


Edited by Waltish: 1/8/2008 11:14:10 PM

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sponger 
1/8/08 12:06:40 PM
Immortal

Quote by Redhatter
Quote by sponger
Firefox is irrelevant since its competition is free.



Not it's biggest competitor. Internet Explorer has not been free since 1998 when they bundled it with Windows 98. Prior to this, yes, I agree with you, you got a bare OS with no web browser, installed a free copy of IE... bang, instant web browser.

Now... it's impossible to buy Windows without IE. Indeed now, it is impossible to obtain IE without Windows -- Microsoft recently announced that they would cease providing IE as a separate download, instead bundling it as an OS update.

So no... Internet Explorer is not free... its cost is included in the $500+ license fee to use the OS it is written for.

The only "free" (as in beer) browsers are:
o Firefox (of course)
o Opera
o Safari
o Konqueror (with the experimental port of KDE 4.0 to Win32)
... perhaps a few others, but IE certainly can't be included in this list.

Last version of IE to be truly "free as in beer" would be version 5.5. IE 6.0 does not run on Windows 95, and I don't think it runs on Windows NT 4.0 either.



It may not be free, but most people have already bought it as part of Windows, therefore there is no financial incentive for shifting to Firefox. I find it highly unlikely that the state of the economy has anything to do with it.

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AnthraxPants 
2/8/08 12:02:31 PM
Overlord

I think it will have an effect. Also the number of crap systems built by places like retravision running vista are really annoying people (the 512MB of RAM doesn't help). I have seen a lot of inexperienced users moving towards open source as they are simply unhappy with commercial closed source software. The credit crunch will make them even more inclined to give closed source the flick.

The amount of Linux discs I am burning for people is ridiculous this year. I have given out 4 copies of Unbutu, 1 Suse, 2 Knoppix, 1 Dynebolic, 1 Debian Lenny, and I have a whole stack of Live CD's I've got waiting for friends and associates (that's 25 Live CD's requested alone)!


Edited by AnthraxPants: 2/8/2008 12:09:06 PM

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TheSecret 
2/8/08 10:30:45 PM
Master
Athiril,

Just a quick question. Since Linux has 95% of the film industry, can you recommend some good film editing software? Cinelerra and Jahshaka are both complete shit, and I don't see what else there is.

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Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.

Redhatter 
9/8/08 12:37:15 PM
Hero
Titan


TheSecret: Maya is quite popular for 3D rendering...

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Stuart Longland (aka. Redhatter, VK4FSJL)
I haven't lost my mind it's backed up on a tape somewhere...
http://atomicdoc.yi.org <-- AtomicDOC Wiki
Resident Coolie-hatted Gentoo geek. (Gentoo MIPS & Mozilla herd member)

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