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How can I learn programming?
kikz 
8/8/08 10:21:09 PM
Immortal

Quote by superfireydave
I'd disagree that it's not a programming language.
I'd say markup languages are a subset of programming languages, but that's it's different to function/method/procedure/OO/all other types of programming languages.

There's actually a fair amount of depth to it, and to CSS. So many people fail to use either well, and even those that do it as a job still fail from time to time.

PHP is more function orientated and if you wanted to investigate web based apps it's a good start - although it's not as accessible as say C because you can't compile it easily on your own machine (unless you've setup a server etc).

I think the point Lewis was making is that if you're failing miserable at HTML you might want to look elsewhere. But fuck off if it's the same as changing colours in MS word.



Oh no. Not this debate again :p

Can you "compile" html in a compile written in html :p

HTML doesn't have any control structures. It has no routines (or logical grouping constructions). It doesn't of itself cause registers to change value. What it does is take some text and tell a third party how it should be formatted.

Have a look at thwat the HTML 2.0 specification says. http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/html-spec_toc.html
"The HyperText Markup Language (HTML) is a simple data format used to create hypertext documents that are portable from one platform to another. HTML documents are SGML documents with generic semantics that are appropriate for representing information from a wide range of domains."

Check out the meanings of markup and markup language


markup
Text added to the data of a document to convey information about the document; for example: tags, processing instructions, and hyperlinks.

markup language
(1) A text-formatting language designed to transform raw text into structured documents, by inserting procedural and descriptive markup into the raw text. (2) A language designed to describe or transform in space or time data, text, or objects into structured data, text, or objects, for example: SGML, HTML, VRML.


Markup is information, not instruction.

I remember the heady days of early word processors. They formatted their documents using pretty much the same method as HTML.


I'm a truckload better at writting apps in C# than I am in HTML. Always have been. I believe there's a reason why I had no trouble picking up a variety of different programming langauges, yet struggle to remember the box model, or how to get my divs to line up nicely, or create a multi-column page. One reason would be lack of repetition. Another would be because HTML isn't a programming language :p



Edited by kikz: 8/8/2008 10:24:32 PM

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Q6600 | 4Gb PC6400 | 2 x 500Gb RAID 0 + 2 x 320 Gb RAID 0 | 19" Benq FP591 + 24" Samsung 245B + 19" Dell | 8800GTS 640 Mb + 8400GS 256 Mb | Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P | Antec P182 | Corsair HX-620 | Thermalright 120 Extreme | Vista x64

superfireydave 
8/8/08 10:27:32 PM
Titan

OR BECAUSE YOU FAIL!
Fine.
You win.
I lose.
BUT STILL.
I like xHTML and CSS. It makes me feel knowledgable :<

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

lewis0076 
8/8/08 10:27:48 PM
Champion

Quote by Amiga4eva
Quote by lewis0076
Quote by kikz
Quote by lewis0076
Just to get a simple understanding of coding and stuff, I suggest you learn HTML first before anything because it is easy to learn and most other programming is like it just harder.

From there I'd say maybe CSS, just start off web based before you get to C++, C# etc...
Thats work for later.

If you want a great site to help you go to

http://www.w3schools.com/

They will get you kick started.


Awesome :D thanks! If I get good enough can I make my own operating system, or a game like world of warcraft, in html?



...

No,

HTML is the coding that websites are made of.

On these forums we are on now, right click and go to "view source" that is all the coding that IS these forums. I know it might turn you off a bit but, get used to be doing about 30 times more if you want to be a programmer.

I am only saying learn HTML and Java first because then you have a taste of what writing script is like, so then if you don't like it you haven't put all that time into learning C++ and C# for nothing.



Two things...

Firstly, these forums are made in ASP, not HTML. HTML is generated dynamically by the ASP code itself.

Secondly, HTML is not a programming -or- scripting language. It's a markup language. It's used to format text and pictures into tables and alignments. HTML will not give you any more a taste of scripting than eating bubblegum will give you a taste of pussy. Unless it's femfresh bubblegum flavour, but that's outside the scope of this discussion.



Even though I just got pwned.

Fucking rofl! parts of that post are sig material.

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The Butcher of Atomic


kikz 
8/8/08 10:32:51 PM
Immortal

Actually ASP is a technology, so if you want to compare apples with apples, I'd say these forums are made with VBScript, HTML, CSS, Javascript, maybe a COM component or two, etc. :p

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Q6600 | 4Gb PC6400 | 2 x 500Gb RAID 0 + 2 x 320 Gb RAID 0 | 19" Benq FP591 + 24" Samsung 245B + 19" Dell | 8800GTS 640 Mb + 8400GS 256 Mb | Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P | Antec P182 | Corsair HX-620 | Thermalright 120 Extreme | Vista x64

superfireydave 
8/8/08 10:34:36 PM
Titan

ASP can DIAF.
PHP is nicer, but not by much >_<

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Mreow?
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=9&t=17306

kikz 
8/8/08 10:34:52 PM
Immortal

Quote by superfireydave
OR BECAUSE YOU FAIL!
Fine.
You win.
I lose.
BUT STILL.
I like xHTML and CSS. It makes me feel knowledgable :<


Hey, I mean no disrespect. I *hate* HTML and CSS. Can't stand it. If you like it then respect++ from me :p. I'd rather muck out the pig pens than write HTML docs.

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Q6600 | 4Gb PC6400 | 2 x 500Gb RAID 0 + 2 x 320 Gb RAID 0 | 19" Benq FP591 + 24" Samsung 245B + 19" Dell | 8800GTS 640 Mb + 8400GS 256 Mb | Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P | Antec P182 | Corsair HX-620 | Thermalright 120 Extreme | Vista x64

Girvo 
9/8/08 5:11:09 PM
Immortal

HTML done semantically isn't actually all that bad.

PHP is a mess, unless you get yourself a nice MVC based framework.

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Quote by Disco
Edit: I got my own age wrong? o_0



Fat_Bodybuilder 
10/8/08 5:58:19 PM
Titan

No point in learning HTML when you can just use something like frontpage and have a preset with frames and tables.





---BEGIN SPOILER

I couldn't resist, Dave. :-P

---END SPOILER

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5. Post anyone's contact details or personal information without their permission - this includes forum users and those offline.

über-Bantumi 
12/8/08 3:21:19 PM
Titan

LOL @ Frontpage

If you are after some assistance with perl as a beginner/intermediate I'd certainly recommend http://perltraining.com.au/tips/ - at least it's not a markup language :P

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Green rooms = no

colganaitor 
12/8/08 8:58:06 PM
Master

Well, I think if you want to start programming nicely with control structures etc., and use something that will help you to learn to code REAL applications like games and OSes etc., an issue of Atomic has recommended languages like Python and Ruby, to learn the basics, before progressing to more hardcore C#, C++ and Java.

and btw

HTML and Web scripting languages are NOT programming languages. They are scripting languages. There's a big difference between scripting and programming. Learning HTML if you want to code a game or OS is like picking up ActionScript (coded version of the commands doable in Flash) instead of C++ or a programming language that actually tells the computer to do things.

It's like a proper programming language will tell the computer,"Do X, Y number of times until objective Z is fulfilled", whilst a scripting language will tell the computer "Use this command to command a command of a command to do XY until Z" which only has to come back down to programming language anyway.

Also, you should read:
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?SCID=370&CIID=116156


Edited by colganaitor: 12/8/2008 8:59:11 PM

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John Connor: We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
The Terminator: It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.
John Connor: Yeah. Major drag, huh?

kikz 
12/8/08 9:34:21 PM
Immortal

Quote by colganaitor
Well, I think if you want to start programming nicely with control structures etc., and use something that will help you to learn to code REAL applications like games and OSes etc., an issue of Atomic has recommended languages like Python and Ruby, to learn the basics, before progressing to more hardcore C#, C++ and Java.


There you have it zephyr. HTFU and learn a real language. None of this namby pampy Ruby. Progress to C# :p

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Q6600 | 4Gb PC6400 | 2 x 500Gb RAID 0 + 2 x 320 Gb RAID 0 | 19" Benq FP591 + 24" Samsung 245B + 19" Dell | 8800GTS 640 Mb + 8400GS 256 Mb | Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P | Antec P182 | Corsair HX-620 | Thermalright 120 Extreme | Vista x64

colganaitor 
12/8/08 11:32:03 PM
Master

lulzors.

meh.

well, that was my interpretation of the article . . .

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John Connor: We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
The Terminator: It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.
John Connor: Yeah. Major drag, huh?

Invicta 
14/8/08 9:27:43 PM
Guru

LET'S USE TABLES!

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