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A request for the magazine?
.:Cyb3rGlitch:. 
30/6/08 10:57:44 PM
Titan

You're still missing the point. This is about the inner workings of the technology. I'll admit, Macs have some nifty features which PCs are really slow to pick up (got EFI?).

It's still maximum power computing, you're just looking with blinkers on.

BTW: http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/28/overclocking-tool-for-the-mac-pro/

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Cyb3rGlitch Tutorials: http://www.cyb3rglitch.com/
Tutorials for the aspiring beginner.

jennyb 
30/6/08 11:23:30 PM
Banned
I am NOT missing the point and I am not ignorant.

Why would I give a crap about any computer regardless of brand if I have to pay double for it and have limited software choice? That, my friend, is idiocy. Every product has it's baseline dollar comparison, mac's don't compare. If you were to disregard the dollar comparison then you could do just about anything, even approach Intel with 50 billion and ask for a custom technology.

So rather than infect a good magazine with diarrhea, why not simply go from PC strength to PC strength?

yes I am aware that Atomic has it's weaknesses and allow macbullshit into it's pages, but often they are small articles that can be dealt with, with a good dose of denial. Something significant however would be impossible to deny and cause severe mental heamorriging. Someone should have put steve shitjobs through a mulcher years ago.

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TheFrunj 
1/7/08 8:01:14 AM
Titan

Quote by jennyb
Someone should have put steve shitjobs through a mulcher years ago.


How inventive....


I'm sure the millions of dollars of profit a year that apple makes will run them into the ground eventually, just you keep on waiting there. Maybe if you send that to him, he might just send you a free mac or ten.

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Minister of Technology

Quote by Shikimaru
TheFrunj doesn't guess, when he forms words with his lips, the world will Warp and change to do his bidding.

iamthemaxx 
1/7/08 9:31:43 AM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


Ahh, nice to see fanboyism/ignorance is not just restricted to the Graphics, CPU and consoles sections.

I don't know what your issue is jennyb - I honestly thought you were one of the more informed and educated tech posters.
Read that one wrong didn't I!

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smadge1 
1/7/08 9:51:12 AM
Immortal

See, a Mac with a VM, or some way of running Windows offers the best of both worlds, an ideal solution.

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at first i was like:
{:|
but then:
}:D
I lol'd

[ .. The WHS Guy .. ]

http://geocline.net/
17938

David Hollingworth 
1/7/08 11:32:17 AM
God

jennyb, I really am shocked to see you so blindly full of rage.

In all of my years of working in the industry, the majority of magazines I have worked on have been made on Macs. When it comes to design work, there's no better machine. When I was editor on Windows XP Mag, I still worked on a Mac, as they are simply more reliable. I work on a PC currently, but I am trying to convince the tech types here that life would be easier with a Mac as well.

Atomic is not blinkered when it comes to tech love. If something does a thing well - be it a PC, console or a even a Mac - then it deserves respect.

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"No matter where you go, there you are."

iamthemaxx 
1/7/08 11:37:40 AM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


PC = Personal Computer (or Power Computing in AtomicMPC terms).

All of my experiences with Mac, OS X at least, have shown it to be a hell of a powerful (and personal) computer.

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funky_monkey 
1/7/08 12:48:30 PM
Guru

does that mean I get a mention about being the pushy little bastard that wanted this article? :) my name in the mag would be hot :P

But I would like to see something go forward.

Also for the record I am a PC user I am not a mac fanboy. I just find them interesting

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Quote by lewis0076
Arse to mouth? So your saying Kiss my arse?



Quote by MrsWallacey
I smell bullshit :)


NightOwl 
1/7/08 2:19:32 PM
Guru

i'm a pc user as well, but i've used a mac on many ocassion. i'd have to agree with david and amiga... the reliability of a mac is widely acknowledged.

i've had only 2 pcs that have never blue screened on me. one is the toshiba notebook i'm using now and the other was a mac. also notable... neither have ever frozen mid powerpoint presentation and neither have ever refused to sync with audio visual equipment, developed monday-itis to a device it's been attached to for months, mysteriously decided it didn't like opening excel documents, or point blank refuse to play that dvd it was quite happy to run earlier in the day.

also worth noting is that a high end toshiba is comparable in price to a mac.

at home, i'll trouble shoot anything a pc can dish out... and probably enjoy it, but in business, reliability is paramount.

and yes, i will pay extra for that :)

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Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
- Ferengi Rule of Acquisition No. 76

.:Cyb3rGlitch:. 
1/7/08 3:49:17 PM
Titan

Quote by funky_monkey
does that mean I get a mention about being the pushy little bastard that wanted this article? :) my name in the mag would be hot :P


Pshhh, sif. ;)

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Cyb3rGlitch Tutorials: http://www.cyb3rglitch.com/
Tutorials for the aspiring beginner.

plebsmacker 
1/7/08 6:25:28 PM
Hero
Immortal


Quote by jennyb
I am NOT missing the point and I am not ignorant.




You certainly sound like you are both missing the point and ignorant.

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else

err0r 
1/7/08 10:09:37 PM
Overlord

Some small (heh) requests for zebra if he's called upon to put together future Mac articles:

1. Whilst I know that you have an engineer's love for tech, and thus like the new and elegant, please don't rate this as a positive over the old and kludgey if the old works and the new is not yet doing anything which is a positive over the old. I'm thinking of EFI specifically here. EFI is the future, yes, and is supported by Vista 64, Windows Server 2003, OSX, and some other 'nix systems, but is not the main 'feature' so far that matters to the user the lock-down of Apple software (and pre-bootcamp, Apple hardware)?

2. Please provide points of comparison when discussing kernel details, i.e., tell us what differentiates OSX from Windows XP and Vista, and ideally alternative 'nix systems as well. I know that linux, the BSDs and Solaris will all be somewhat the same, yet completely different, yet what makes OSX better or worse?

3. On a similar note, OSX 10.0 and Windows XP came out at roughly similar times (2001) as did OSX 10.5 and Windows Vista (2007), yet most comparisons which praise the 'future tech' of OSX do so only in comparison to Windows XP. Vista obviously suffers from some show-stopping implementation and user experience issues, but how does the kernel tech stack up?

4. Is there anything which differentiates Apple from other 'premium' custom PC builders such as Alienware other than a slick UI on top of a unix stack and software lock-in? If (say) Alienware put took KDE 4 in-house and put the dollars and time into polishing the user experience and tool-set (pretend that KDE was under a BSD license instead of a GPL one) whilst encouraging developers would it be any different in principle to what the Mac system is now?

I know this all adds up to something which is rather large and time-consuming, but if you're going to introduce Macs as a positive alternative/experience to the wide Atomic audience, you're going to have to preach to default-only basic computer users (presumably Windows users, but many Mac users would fall here as well), Windows power users (think people who have grown with the platform from 3.0 or 95 onward), OS agnostics (those perennial dual-booters), and open source 'nix-only users.

I know that I for one prefer articles which are written at a level which is over my head than those which are below, but the art, as always, is to make the complex appear simple and to provide enough information throughout to educate the n00b yet entertain - or at least occupy the attention of - the guru.

My overall suggestion would be for a mega-article split over multiple issues and divided into logical sections: what differentiates the hardware, what differentiates the kernel, and what differentiates the UI/user experience/development ecosystem.

Good luck! :)

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jennyb 
2/7/08 10:44:37 AM
Banned
Quotes by others than myself:

” I don't like Apple or Macs, but when I don't like something I don't use it”

“If I were given a mac, I'd either sell it or give it to a relative who needs the use of a computer, but is so utterly hopeless at using one that they need something simpler. And that is the gap in the market that apple fill”

"I wouldn't really associate Mac OS and 'Maximum Power Computing' together. I'd rather read other articles personally. "

"Lets burn him fellas!! "

"You can also throw Macs further, they score pretty high on the Frisbeemark benchmark"

"How to pick up your iMac G5.....Now I worry about the kinds of users that need this in the help documentation"

"The simplicity of the system and its OS really works against it in that regard "

“I personally dislike Apple computers too”

So if people aren't taking the mac platform seriously and most people wouldn't dare spend their own cash to buy one why are we still entertaining the idea? Why not just embrace the reality? Why waste pages in a magazine to a curiosity that only 0.001% might embrace? For those of you that harbour an inferiority complex and need to fantasise about the underdog getting one up (yes have a think about what you really are) borrow a rocky movie, it's alot cheaper than dumping 3k on a dual core.

"In all of my years of working in the industry, the majority of magazines I have worked on have been made on Macs".....jesus christ David if you want to idolise a machine that can run Illustrator, quark and photoshop I'II send you a pic of my old P3, it's rock solid and in 7 years of operation hasn't has one failure, not even the floppy drive has missed a beat.

For those of you jibbering about mac reliability you must be kidding. I spoke to a guy from the local tafe who purchased the macs for the graphic design department and he's had ton's of problems, from psu's to dvd drives to booting problems. They even invested in some large apple monitors which he said spent more time out of the tafe on repair than they did in.
I run vista business 64 bit and I run it hard, from CAD to animation software to crysis to anything, I've had these programs going whilst running superpi, folding@home,cpuz, core temp and god knows what else. Acad Architecture will gladly load all cores to a constant 98-100% for ages depending on render parameters, do you think the machine croaks and dies, hell NO!!!
Compare that to a certain tard I use know running a mac and lightwave, he'd get a little ambitious with the render settings and the vile thing would keel over. This is after he spent a fortune on it including the 30" apple crap monitor which he had replaced 3 times and still couldn't sit in front of it for longer than an hour at a time. Boy was he spewing. Once again we've had the sad cases try and justify apples existance, have they found any PC comparisons in their favour? Theres a big fat NO 3 pages into it. Once again, read it and weep:

--> So if anyone has any non biased dollar for dollar reviews regarding PC/Mac put up the link and lets disect it. In my opinion and in the minds of millions of others, macs are for tards. <--

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funky_monkey 
2/7/08 11:27:32 AM
Guru

Quote by funky_monkey

and the people that I know will come in here and comment about how bad macs are or macs are for idiots only highlight how much of a fat fuckwit you are


*said and done*



so I will comment this for some people.


I have mentioned I am not a mac fan. I don't have a love for macs However they are still a computer that is used more and more for things that are better to do on a Mac than a windows based PC.

People like yourself obviously are narrow minded fools for the comments you make as you obviously have not taken the time to even look at anything mac related but instead have pulled your tiny little e-peen out and trying to make yourself heard but instead, Are making yourself look like a pure idiot.

Making a thread ranting about how shit macs are and how you beg for them to not be added in will not make you noticed, or if it does it will make you noticed for the wrong reasons.

I suggest you grow up a little and actually read what is being requested.

I am not a mac lover however I would like to see some sort of kernal comparrison on how a mac would handle an opperation compared to a PC or even linux.

I suggest you grow up.

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Quote by lewis0076
Arse to mouth? So your saying Kiss my arse?



Quote by MrsWallacey
I smell bullshit :)


Squidy 
2/7/08 11:33:58 AM
Hero
Colossus


Jennyb found bad quotes about a mac? Well, at least we all know there's no such thing about a bad quote about Windows or MS...

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JESUS CHRIST ITS A LION!

/Gets in the car

Roses are red, violets are blue, I'll fuck you with a rake

funky_monkey 
2/7/08 11:36:55 AM
Guru

also to note..


You make comments about some guy at your local tafe, Who is complaining about macs for the same reason you are. he just doesn't like them

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Quote by lewis0076
Arse to mouth? So your saying Kiss my arse?



Quote by MrsWallacey
I smell bullshit :)


TinBane 
2/7/08 11:40:04 AM
Mod
Hero

Immortal


Lol.

Jennyb, I'm not sure what your issue is, whether it's that you feel that Apple unfairly avoid criticism, whether you've heard heaps of horror stories or what. But you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

Let's start with the disclaimer. I'm an 'agnostic' by most people's measures. I've used both macs and PCs since I was little, starting with an 8086 'luggable' (god bless it!) and a Mac Plus. I've also used linuxes of various flavours, the old 'apricot' computers, commodores and amigas.

Every computer has had it's own faults, it's own weaknesses, and it's own advantages. I currently own both macs and PCs, running mac os, linux, winXP (I don't like Vista yet) and BSD.

In terms of PC vs Mac reviews, that's a little ambitious, imho. If you want to look at sub $2000 computers, then there is the macbook, but you are comparing it to thousands and thousands of possible PC configurations, sold by different suppliers, with different warranties, prices, specials etc.

If you would like to make a comparison, to support your "this is overly expensive" accusations, go ahead. I think you made a comment about 3 - 4 times more expense.

The fact of the matter is that as a 'pro-sumer' you have had a better experience than most PC users. Apple is increasing it's market share, and the rate of this increase, is increasing itself. That is in every market, globally, that Apple sells in. Apple consistently garnishes higher customer satisfaction ratings for products and for support. The fact that this hasn't statistically diminished as the market share has expanded, argues that this isn't due to mac 'fan-bois' distorting the results.

Since Apple moved away from PPC to intel, the relative price gap between macs and pcs has pretty much reached relative parity. What I mean by this, is that if you buy a PC with the same stats, the same support and warranty, and package as an equivalent mac (Ie, you compare apples to apples) you tend to find that the price gap is small, could go either way, and is most likely non-existent.


You've provided a few quotes (some extremely out of context, which is hilarious, as they are actually pro-mac) and some anecdotal evidence. The fact of the matter is that when mac users are asked how reliable their machines are, they provide very positive feedback. Of course there are bad cases, Apple are far from perfect. In fact, I reviewed the latest refresh of the iMac on this very site, and had criticisms to level at the options available.

However, a savvy mac user compared to a savvy PC user, when buying a comparative machine, loses very little.

The biggest criticism I can make of Apple, is over their refusal to produce a consumer-level desktop tower machine for expandability. I can understand why they do this, in terms of market reasons, but I think it's a very stupid move.

In terms of reliability, some machines are more reliable than others. We've sold many mac minis, however over the entire line, since they were G4, and carrying on into the intel mac minis, we've had FOUR come in for service for repair, and one of those was because a guy staticked his own ram trying to replace it himself.



Edited by TinBane: 2/7/2008 11:54:54 AM

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absit iniuria verbis

Quote by Takoma
I have an ignore list built into my clicking finger.



funky_monkey 
2/7/08 11:45:29 AM
Guru

Tinbane

GG nice


EDIT- wow stupid keyboard likes to mke extra letters :P


Edited by funky_monkey: 2/7/2008 12:10:42 PM

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Quote by lewis0076
Arse to mouth? So your saying Kiss my arse?



Quote by MrsWallacey
I smell bullshit :)


iamthemaxx 
2/7/08 12:23:36 PM
Mod
SuperHero

Immortal


Stop making sense you lot!

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funky_monkey 
2/7/08 12:30:06 PM
Guru

I is a sorry monkey 8^(

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Quote by lewis0076
Arse to mouth? So your saying Kiss my arse?



Quote by MrsWallacey
I smell bullshit :)


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