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Evolution in action: Scientists watch as new lilly species evolves
Shirley, You Jest! 
10/9/08 8:11:03 AM
Learner

Quote by dsagill
Quote by Skulptur
I love it how I make no mention of creationism or religion yet the fundamentalists feel like am I attacking them.
Well, I guess they would be feeling pretty insecure in today's society.
100 years ago, they would be comfortable, but not today



Well I am NOT a creationist, nor believe in God but I don't believe in evolution BETWEEN species, only evolution WITHIN species. As Director quite rightly stated - show him (and me) a brand new species in the order of a reptile turning into a bird and then I'll believe. Until true intermediate bird-reptiles and such are found I have a problem with classic evolution.



Well they have been found in abundance. As have transitional forms, in hundreds of different types.

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Director 
10/9/08 8:18:52 AM
Hero
Immortal


Quote by Shirley, You Jest!
Quote by dsagill
Quote by Skulptur
I love it how I make no mention of creationism or religion yet the fundamentalists feel like am I attacking them.
Well, I guess they would be feeling pretty insecure in today's society.
100 years ago, they would be comfortable, but not today



Well I am NOT a creationist, nor believe in God but I don't believe in evolution BETWEEN species, only evolution WITHIN species. As Director quite rightly stated - show him (and me) a brand new species in the order of a reptile turning into a bird and then I'll believe. Until true intermediate bird-reptiles and such are found I have a problem with classic evolution.



Well they have been found in abundance. As have transitional forms, in hundreds of different types.



lols, pics or it didn't happen. ;-)

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A challenge to a perceived consensus is a challenge to all the powers in human society, as it can take a person’s understanding of the world we live in, and flip it upside down.

superfireydave 
10/9/08 8:24:41 AM
Titan

Quote by Director
lols, pics or it didn't happen. ;-)


You're not looking hard enough then.
Hell, take a look at some of the later forms of dinosaurs, the ones that have wings.
edit: Evolution isn't about a frog turning into a cat, that's fucking stupid. It's about small changes over a long time period - probably why you haven't seen any changes with your own eyes.

Take a look at our ancestors. You've got Neanderthals which came from the same evolutionary line as us, but branched off a little earlier. You've got a heap of apes which are very similar to us.

I don't think evolution is a hard concept to understand, or even agree with. I think you're just hesitant to believe it.

As was said on the previous page, what makes evolution less believable than a 3000 year old book? You have no idea who wrote it, you have no idea of its validity except for a heap of people just like you agreeing with it. For all you know it's something a government invented a long time ago to placate the masses - and that's a completely plausible theory.

But you're happy to believe that some bearded guy controls the world to make yourself feel more secure, but can't believe that favourable genetic traits will be carried forwards and lead to the evolution of new species?


Edited by superfireydave: 10/9/2008 8:29:32 AM

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Director 
10/9/08 8:49:54 AM
Hero
Immortal


I've taken the liberty of translating your post into english where necessary and THEN answering your questions. P


"You're not looking hard enough then. " (You're not applying your imagination in the ways you should.)

Yeah dude, I've been taking the actual evidence at face value for over 20 years now. The first 20 years I just accepted what I was told, it's only after I DID start looking closely that my doubts started to surface.


"Hell, take a look at some of the later forms of dinosaurs, the ones that have wings." (What do you call a boy without a winkle? A girl!)

A dinosaur with wings, like a pterodactyl you mean?


"edit: Evolution isn't about a frog turning into a cat, that's fucking stupid."

I agree completely.

"It's about small changes over a long time period -"

So how come if the idea that the frog turns into a cat is fucking stupid in one time frame, and all we do is add a certain amount of time it's no longer fucking stupid? See IMO if something is fucking stupid then that's the way it is, changing something (time) that doesn't change the fundamental nature of the thing itself doesn't impinge on that in any way that I can tell. Except I guess that "small changes over a long time period" sounds better than saying "blind faith?"


"Take a look at our ancestors. You've got Neanderthals which came from the same evolutionary line as us, but branched off a little earlier. You've got a heap of apes which are very similar to us."

And they are only 'our ancestors' because that's what you've been taught. Similar does not mean the 'same'.

"As was said on the previous page, what makes evolution less believable than a 3000 year old book? "

I never mentioned it, it's all you haters who keep bringing it up. I'm happy to stick to the OP about lilies making lilies being evidence for darwinism. Or, if you insist on dragging up evolution on the larger scale then that's OK too. No need to bring the Bible into it at all AFAIK.

"But you're happy to believe that some bearded guy controls the world to make yourself feel more secure, but can't believe that favourable genetic traits will be carried forwards and lead to the evolution of new species?"

"Bearded guy?" See, that's problem you might claim to know a little about darwinism, and fair enough, it's the state-sanctioned creation myth that everyone gets indoctrinated with. But if you are going to start comparisons it might be a good idea to learn some stuff about the thing you are comparing, and not from that things critics. ;-)

GL








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A challenge to a perceived consensus is a challenge to all the powers in human society, as it can take a person’s understanding of the world we live in, and flip it upside down.

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